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posted 13 Feb 2004, 20:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

PM? Fine by me, so long as I get to be Pope! And I agree with you Banditski. It's one of the reasons I'm so terrified of AI. Think of the ease with which Kellhus manipulates people. In a matter of a few decades we'll have CPU's with far, far more transistors than we have neurons, and working at the speed of light no less! We're already 'evolving' programs in artificial environments that produce better results than any human design, and with structures no one can understand... We live in a creepy world. Which might be why I spend so much time in Earwa. view post


What are you most looking forward to? posted 14 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Author Q & AWhat are you most looking forward to? by Priest, Candidate

I'm curious about what people are most looking out for in WP and TTT. Could be something general, or perhaps very specific things? view post


posted 14 Feb 2004, 23:02 in Author Q & AWhat are you most looking forward to? by Wil, Head Moderator

I want to learn more about the Magic of the land. Also, the whole Kellhus is something I want to see! view post


posted 15 Feb 2004, 19:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Title by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

So far it's 7-0 for TTT, so it is looking that way. However, only 7 of our 17 members have voted, so we still don't have a clear majority... view post


posted 15 Feb 2004, 20:02 in Author Q & AWhat are you most looking forward to? by LooseCannon, Peralogue

I'm looking forward to learning more about the history of the world, i.e. more about the First Apocalypse. Also, more info on Kellhus' father, Maithanet, the Kianese, Non-men, No-God, Gnostic of the North, and Golgotterath. Or to sum it up: everything! ;) view post


posted 15 Feb 2004, 21:02 in The Warrior ProphetAbout the books by LooseCannon, Peralogue

I read it pretty slowly as well. I think you can compare it to really good food as you want to take your time eating and enjoying every last bite. My apologies for the analogous cliche :P view post


posted 16 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Author Q & AWhat are you most looking forward to? by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Yeah. To me, much of the world is still hidden from understanding, and the excitement of goint new places and being introduced to new cultures draws me. view post


posted 16 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I still believe that evrything can be rationalized without the requirement of faith, however. Even the duch should theoretically be able to understand that there ARE principles behind flight, even if he himself is incapable of following the math. view post


posted 16 Feb 2004, 22:02 in Author Q & AWhat are you most looking forward to? by Mithfânion, Didact

I agree that possible new places are on of the most tantalizing things, but at the same time I hasten to add that I'd rather have a few exquistitely crafted and finely detailed people and places than a very large cast of characters and cultures which are only superficially touched upon. It's very important to really put a lot into such a culture, because it's one remarkable people that you will remember much sooner than a whole slew of superficial ones. In general, things I am very interested in range from the Anasurimbor line to the Nonmen, to the Nonmen city and the magic in Earwa, to the religious forces coming to the fore as well as specific individuals which may emerge. And of course Mog-Pharau himself. Edit: That was one horribly structured post but I can't be bothered to re-write :) view post


posted 16 Feb 2004, 22:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

How about scientific rationalization? Don't you have to have FAITH in reason and observation (since grounding these in reason and observation would just be begging the question)? But this question is rhetorical. There really seems to no way to escape some minimal form of faith: philosophy is littered with failed attempts to absolutely ground knowledge in first principles. I guess the hard question (the one that torments me at night, anyway) would be this: What are your grounds for believing in morality and purpose? Whatever those grounds are, they can't be scientific (which is why I bite the bullet and opt for faith). You might have faith that science will someday account for them, but from what we know so far, it seems more and more likely that science will simply explain them away. view post


posted 16 Feb 2004, 23:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by LooseCannon, Peralogue

Back to the AI discussion (Sorry, I am a terrible philosopher): One of my teachers last semester gave us an interesting final lecture on the state of computer technology and where it is headed in the next hundred years. According to Moore's law integrated circuits will continue to double in efficiency every year. While some argue that this theory is no longer valid the fact of the matter is that when you think about how fast a computer processor is now and you start doubling that capability and then doubling it again and again and again you are talking about incredible advancements. By the end of the 21st century some of the things we've seen in movies like the Matrix and other cheesy sci-fi movies will be reality. Also, with all the advancements in nanotechnology processors will finally have the ability to transfer data at speeds that compliment them. I think it is also going to reduce prices on many technological devices by a considerable margin. view post


posted 17 Feb 2004, 02:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

I remember rooting around on the web trying to find a crossword answer and stumbling across this crazy religion where the member(s) thought the sacred purpose of mankind wasn't to worship God but to MAKE him. He called it the 'Artilect' (I ended up writing a short story of the same name). Anyway, the argument he used was almost identical to yours, LC. The upshot seemed to be that we were doomed to make God, whether we wanted to or not. Reminds me of Herbert's 'Ship' books... There's a growing literature out there on something called the 'singularity,' which, if I remember correctly, has to do with the point at which our technological advances are so radical we simply cannot predict that anything we're presently familiar with (such as our humanity) will abide in any recognizable form. Supposedly it's just around the corner... view post


posted 17 Feb 2004, 18:02 in Author Q & AOther authors you enjoy by Kellais, Commoner

@ Cu'jara - Your last post is just brilliant :lol: I really had to lmao! You're soooo right!! Personally I don't give a damn about the "official" critics. Come on, they [b:d9j0vp7b]have[/b:d9j0vp7b] to find something to criticize. Or else they wouldn't have a job, right :wink: I inform myself via amazon for example. They have a topic "customers who bought this book bought also..." Normally you can't go wrong with that. And then there are such places like this here! A Lot of good recommendations...I wouldn't have heard about your book if I haven't read SE's latest interview at that time....but back to the topic of your last post... :wink: If you had left out all the "showing a woman in bla bla situation" then you would have probably got a bashing from a male reviewer saying that "Mr. Bakker seems to be a feminist himself". I think you get my meaning :wink: If it's worth something, I REALLY love your writing...keep it up that way and you will have found a permanent reader... Have to go... Kellais view post


posted 17 Feb 2004, 18:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I think morality is as simple as looking around and saying what do I want out of life? When a collective group of people, or animals (which is all we really are) asks themselves this question, the average response is what determines morality. Honestly, that is all we do now, and theoretically that should be all that is needed. If a majority of people feel a certain way, then they will set a moral standard. There may not be a rational definition of morality because morality is a construct of humanity. But simultaneously, no faith in anything other than the logic of common desire is required for this model to work. The technology thing is actually quite frightening when you really think about it. view post


posted 17 Feb 2004, 18:02 in Author Q & AWhat are you most looking forward to? by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Your mention of religion made me think: I would like to learn more about the cultic religions and how they are related to the tusk, etc. view post


posted 17 Feb 2004, 19:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

I see what you're saying, and very many people hold this view, but I'm not sure they're comfortable with the consequences. For instance, when the Nazi's looked around, and decided they wanted to exterminate all the Jews, cripples, Gypsies, and homosexuals they found, were they right? If right and wrong are just what everyone within a society takes them to be, then it would seem the Nazi's, given their society, were quite right to murder those millions of people. view post


posted 17 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Yes, within their smaller society they were right, and historically many peoples have been enslaved and abused due to a society's standards. However, just as we now have equal rights for blacks and other racial groups, as world culture expands the standards of morality will broaden to include and ever larger sphere of peoples. We now must look at the entire world when we think about a majority of human desires. view post


posted 17 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

And if the entire world goes Nazi? view post


posted 17 Feb 2004, 22:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by LooseCannon, Peralogue

The problem here is that the Nazis, as a society, didn't possess what most societies do have and that is a shred of honour or respect for your enemy. They systematically killed men, women and children in brutal gas chambers. I can't understand how they could look past this and still say "We are doing the right thing, the rest of the world is wrong in this". view post


posted 17 Feb 2004, 22:02 in The Darkness That Comes Beforekellhus == good guy?? by Malarion, Candidate

I don't think he did. Bakkar cleverly never revealed any concrete facts about Kellhus. He has allowed us to build up our own opinions/prejudicies about this facinating character. view post


posted 18 Feb 2004, 19:02 in The Darkness That Comes Beforekellhus == good guy?? by Mithfânion, Didact

Anasurimbor Kellhus has to rank up there in my all-time top three of favoriet characters. Whenever I think of him it's an image of some lone figure standing on a hill, cloak and hair blowing in the wind, ominous aura included. Just seems to fit :) view post


posted 18 Feb 2004, 20:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

But that really doesn't matter in terms of Scott illustrating his point. He is saying that if the entire world believes one way, that way can still be deemed wrong by us. This comes back to a majority dominating a minority. Just because a minority is a minority does not mean they have no rights. I know I just argued against myself, but I feel the point here is finding an answer, not "winning." Back to my side: do you think the entire world would ever be subject to such a shift? Maybe the varying factions will always ensure that on a global scale we have an acceptable standard of morality. view post


posted 18 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

The thing is that on your account it doesn't matter one whit which way the world goes: no matter what, it'll be the 'right way,' whether we ban the harm and consumption of animals, or start dicing our children up for our salads. There's no society-independent (which is to say, objective) yardstick. And this, I think, is just another way of saying there's no such thing as right or wrong. I can argue against you, Jack, because I think you're not willing to accept the consequences of your initial commitments, but I couldn't argue against him because he WAS. Since I sincerely wanted, as you do, the BEST answer rather than MY answer, I was forced to concede. The reason was all on his side. Nevertheless, I REFUSE to accept his conclusions. So all I have left is my crummy minimalist faith in 'something more.' It can be depressing. view post


posted 18 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Author Q & AOther authors you enjoy by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Thank you, Kellais! I really think you'll enjoy TWP... Or at least I hope :lol: view post


posted 18 Feb 2004, 22:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I understand what you're saying... I simply can't make myself believe, or 'let go' and believe... I can't believe. It is sort of depressing. view post


We Got Permissions posted 18 Feb 2004, 22:02 in General AnnouncementsWe Got Permissions by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

We finally got permissions from the publisher to use the artwork from the book on the forum, and so we have switched over the forum to a theme utilising cover elements. I hope you enjoy them, and if you have any feedback please post away! view post


posted 19 Feb 2004, 17:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

So you're a nihilist, then? view post


posted 19 Feb 2004, 17:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I did some research on nihilism. I don't necessarily agree with everything I found, but I would have to say that in general yes, I am. I have been thinking about this and I would have to say that I believe there is no higher law or moral code. However, I simultaneously believe in a personal set of moral codes, and believe that as a society we require morals. My personal morals are (of course) based on my parents morals, which were based on their parents' which were based on church. So I therefore indeirectly derive my moral codes from a western christian source. But, I don't believe in God and I don't follow my morals based on any fear of retribution, but more out of what feels right to me to do to other humans. That leaves the moral system of the world in a scary postion, because it assumes that all morals really are are the current opinion of a group of people. I have to say that I agree. [quote:n088p88f]In objective terms, the only difference between killing an ant and killing a human, is that other humans could cause you grief for doing the latter. For him, there were literally no crimes where there were no witnesses.[/quote:n088p88f] I agree that objectively they are the same thing, but as a human I take offense to the one and not the other. In this way they are made different, and I consider it a crime because it does not follow my own moral code. I do not consider murder excusable, witnesses or no. _____ Out of curiosity, do you believe a moral code exists for animals? If yes, does it stem from the same source as ours? Or is it the exact same code? view post


posted 19 Feb 2004, 23:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

A moral code for animals? I having a hard enough time clinging to one for humans! There certainly doesn't seem to be any code animals recognize. view post


posted 20 Feb 2004, 03:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by banditski, Candidate

and i'm sure animals would say the same about us. not that i'm knocking human morals, but pointing out that it's a matter of perspective. just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it's not there. it doesn't mean that it is there either. just that "there's nothing that i can see" is not an argument. view post


posted 20 Feb 2004, 16:02 in Off-Topic DiscussionWoh! by Elfstone4Evenstar, Commoner

The board looks wikid now! CONGRATS guys! :D view post


posted 20 Feb 2004, 16:02 in Off-Topic DiscussionHow did you get here? by Elfstone4Evenstar, Commoner

[quote:k3e7s7iq]Which link of Wil's was it?[/quote:k3e7s7iq] The one at Farseers view post


posted 20 Feb 2004, 18:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I guess what I'm asking is if there is a higher moral code for humans, shouldn't there be one for all animals? Animals kill each other competing for mates in some species and certainly kill and eat each other, so it doesn't seem logical that we as humans are so special we have a special moral code. view post


posted 20 Feb 2004, 18:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Not really. It's not clear, for instance, that animals enjoy anything remotely resembling choice. Without choice, there's no responisibility, and without responsibility, there's no morality. view post


posted 20 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

So why is it then that humans are the only species capable of choice? Do you think this is part of the relationship with a 'higher power' of some kind? view post


posted 21 Feb 2004, 07:02 in Author Q & AMen v. Nonmen by Mithfânion, Didact

I'm curious about this ancient Nonmen King, from which you take your screenname. Is he only a legend or is he still alive at the time of our story? view post


posted 21 Feb 2004, 16:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

That's the million dollar question, and as you might suspect, there's a million different answers to it. The simplest, most forceful answer, is that we DON'T have any - we're just another animal species like any other, distinguished by the peculiar nature of our delusions. And though I accept this as the strongest argument, I refuse to believe it's true. Others would say we have choice because we have souls, or because we have reason, or because of quantum tunnelling deep in our brain, or because choice REALLY is (substitute elaborate redefinition here), and so on, and so on. view post


posted 21 Feb 2004, 16:02 in Author Q & AMen v. Nonmen by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Legend. Cu'jara Cinmoi has been dead for several thousand years. References to and explanations regarding him surface a few times in TWP, and the story of his wars with the Inchoroi will be included in the appendices to Bk III - if I can convince them to include it! I actually hope, at some point, to write a stand alone regarding him. view post


posted 21 Feb 2004, 20:02 in Author Q & AMen v. Nonmen by Mithfânion, Didact

Sounds awesome. I hope you can pull that off. How's TTT going btw? Things going in the direction that you want? Will there be anything that will differentiate it from the previous two books in any way that one might not expect? view post


posted 22 Feb 2004, 05:02 in Author Q & AMen v. Nonmen by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

I'm actually waiting a couple weeks before digging into TTT (I'm still decompressing from TWP). I have the old, old version that I wrote some fifteen years ago, but I would be surprised if more than a few phrases survived in the final version. I tend to go underground for periods of frenetic writing and rewriting. The big difference will be the relative density of the events. Many things start happening within a short span of time. Things hit the proverbial fan. There will also be a series of extensive glossaries dealing with Earwa. view post


The Inchoroi and the Sranc posted 22 Feb 2004, 23:02 in Author Q & AThe Inchoroi and the Sranc by Priest, Candidate

What do we really know of these peoples? Can someone please give a bit of a summary of what we have learned sofar? How powerful are they, and what powers do they have? What appear to be their aims? How many are still left? About the Inchoroi in particular I'm wondering what they look like (it's been almost a year since I read the book and can't recall of there was a description). view post


posted 23 Feb 2004, 03:02 in Author Q & ADunyain by LooseCannon, Peralogue

Been reading through TDTCB and a question came to mind near the beginning. It is stated that when Kellhus left Ishual all the remaining Dunyain commited suicide to cleanse themselves of being polluted or some such by Moenghus' sorcery. Does this mean that Kellhus is the only remaining Dunyain in all of Earwa? I guess this might be bordering very close to spoilers so I guess if this topic is covered in later books just ignore this. view post


posted 23 Feb 2004, 08:02 in Author Q & ADunyain by Skyfell, Commoner

Well, not quite. The statement was that all the remaining Dunyain *who had been contacted by Moenghus* killed themselves. The point was that everything outside their walls was viewed as flawed, and thus nothing and no one could be allowed in, even if it means the death of one or many Dunyain. I'm interested in reading more about the the Dunyain's path from 'refugees with an ideology' to 'fanatic isolationists.' They didn't kill the original Anasurimbor, and they seemed expect to be recognized as harmless ("We are Dunyain, child. What reason could you have to fear us?") so at some point they shifted to their 'modern' willingness to kill or die for purity. Maybe I'm reading too much into a few lines (Mr. Author? Cue. :D ) but if I'm not, then whatever the sociological fulcrum point was should be seriously interesting. Jonathan view post


posted 23 Feb 2004, 19:02 in Author Q & ADunyain by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Hi Skyfell. In the original versions of TDTCB, the story started with three or four Dunyain sections, so I actually tend to lose track of what I did or didn't include in this final version! There's very much that I allude to that never appears in the book - I'm morbidly obsessed with subtexts. I see the radical hygiene of the 'present' Dunyain not as the result of any single event, but rather many small insights and decisions over the course of many years. No matter how clean one is, one can always be cleaner, even if the soil at issue is history, custom, and animal passion. view post


posted 23 Feb 2004, 19:02 in Author Q & AThe Inchoroi and the Sranc by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

So far, precious little. This changes in a big way in TWP, however. Lotsa juicy little revelations (he says, cackling and rubbing his hands in glee)... view post


posted 23 Feb 2004, 20:02 in Author Q & AThe Inchoroi and the Sranc by Mithfânion, Didact

I saw in the appendices that the Nonmen weren't able to communicate with their enemies until the Inchoroi "birthed mouths". I find that highly intriguing. Also interesting to note that the Nonmen in their own capital speak a different language from those in other parts of Earwa, that is unless I misunderstand the appendices at that point. Kind of reminds me of Minas Tirith, capital of Gondor, were Quenya (High Elven) was still spoken whereas it had vanished almost everywhere else, certainly among mortals.[/i] view post


posted 23 Feb 2004, 20:02 in Author Q & ADunyain by Mithfânion, Didact

But there are still some Dunyians left,right? view post


posted 23 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Author Q & ADunyain by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Plenty :wink: view post


posted 23 Feb 2004, 22:02 in Author Q & ADunyain by Mithfânion, Didact

Had I mentioned yet that I want TWP NOW? :D view post


posted 23 Feb 2004, 22:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

But I mean, what do YOU think? view post


posted 24 Feb 2004, 04:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Like I said, I'm an agnostic. 8) view post


Domain Hosting posted 25 Feb 2004, 00:02 in General AnnouncementsDomain Hosting by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

If you havn't noticed, those annoying ads which were previously in evidence are all gone! We have purchased a domain name and hosting through the largesse of LooseCannon, and things seem to be pretty much under control. If anything odd should happen, it may be do to adjustments to our new home. Thanks for your patience. view post


posted 25 Feb 2004, 18:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I mean about the animal/human choice issue. Do you think we both have choice, neither, or one and not the other? Personally, I think you are probably right that we technically don't really choose, except that choosing is simply the act of everyone's differing physiologies(sp?). view post


posted 27 Feb 2004, 01:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

I think it's pretty obvious that animals don't have choice, at least not in any sense that entails responsibility. We human beings, on the other hand, simply HAVE to have choice, if anything is to make any sense whatsoever... view post


Eating Crow posted 27 Feb 2004, 18:02 in Author Q & AEating Crow by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Just received my February Locus magazine, and find myself eating crow. Carolyn Cushman, who in her respective capsule reviews more or less panned both TDTCB and A Telling of Stars by my fellow Penguin Caitlin Sweet, has also chosen them for her favourite first novel releases of 2003! I'm going to have to dig out my August Locus and reread her review... :lol: view post


posted 27 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

But it seems pretty damn arrogant to say that humans are the only beings with choice, and it doesn't really make sense in the context of evolution. view post


posted 27 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Wil, Head Moderator

Except for the fact that the Human brain is more developed then most other animals (except primates, dolphins etc.) So from an evolutionary stand point, it makes perfect sense. The human brain is capable of choice, we are able to overcome our most natural instincts. We are able to think about and change the world we live in. Most other animals cannot to the extent we can. I feel that it is the fact that we have the consequences of our decisions that put us where we are. An ant doesn't feel the consequences of it's decision to build the mound here or there, but we as humans (and the higher animals) do. This to me is what proves that evolution is true, because you can look at the different parts of the Human brain and see all past brains. view post


posted 27 Feb 2004, 22:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Ok, I see your point about evolutionary choice, but I don't think that choice was given to us by a higher power, and the argument about choice is that if there is no higher power then we cannot have choice. I think on a fundamental level this may be true, and we therefore have no choice, just a very, very complex cause effect reaction system. view post


posted 27 Feb 2004, 22:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Wil, Head Moderator

Then how can you argue right and wrong? If we have no choice, and everything is "a very complex cause-effect reaction system" then how can anything be wrong? Why should I be blamed if I choose to kill someone? It wasn't my choice. I had to do it, my neurons made me! That is the hole in the argument, in my opinion. How can there be moral codes? How can a person be expected to do something, when they have no control? view post


posted 28 Feb 2004, 02:02 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeBest character by Malarion, Candidate

Bugger, that was me who posted above. Guest be damned. Stupid boy never logged on. Bah! view post


posted 28 Feb 2004, 02:02 in The Warrior ProphetAbout the books by Malarion, Candidate

I read it on a crap holiday. It was one of the highlights, let me tell you. Another book I read was Feist's "Jimmy the Hand". Aaargh. Dammit, I write better than that! view post


posted 28 Feb 2004, 03:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Skyfell, Commoner

Let's drag in another science and get back to the books at once. Memetics is the study and theory of the spread of ideas and behaviors between people. One of the basic concepts is to view memes (units of transferable information (pronounced like 'genes' which inspired the term)) as entities which are subject to evoltionary pressures. Which means that the ideas you're most likely to find in a random person's head are those that are best able to spread from person to person. Also, obviously, what ideas are already established in a person's brain affects the spread of other ideas. The idea that Kellhus was more than human was able to spread through the Holy War because the Men of the Tusk believed that gods sometimes walk the world as men. In sf I've read, memetics is weaponized/made terrible by presenting it as some sort of alien sound or image that completely takes over the mind of anyone that encounters it. I don't think that's probable because everyone has a slightly different mind by nature, before nuture steps in. More realistic and more worrisome is that if that underlying state and the noosphere (idea-space) of a person can be quantified, then a computer could be programed to do just what the Dunyain do to the world-born: come up with a flawed/directed idea-chain that someone [b:3f8s8uu5]will[/b:3f8s8uu5] believe. (Actually, I've read sf that take that approach too, but it was writen before memetics became cool.) So, since it does seem to be possible, let's consider: How responsible should Cnaiur be held for his part in the murder of his father, Skiotha? Without outside influence, he would never have done it. People choose (assuming they do) based on what they believe. Right? Insanity and temporary insanity are accepted by most legal systems as reason for not being responsible. Truly believing bizarre things, against evidence, is often classified as insanity. But when your beliefs can be altered..? Jonathan view post


Congrats, whoever deserves the blackbird! posted 28 Feb 2004, 04:02 in Author Q & AEating Crow by Skyfell, Commoner

Isn't 'eating crow' getting the bad side of things? You know, someone insults your team before a game and your coach tells you to "go out and make them eat crow!" or something? (Let me check my notes... from Merriam-Webster Online - eat crow : to accept what one has fought against.) Anyway, congratulations again! The book deserves it. Jonathan view post


posted 28 Feb 2004, 08:02 in Author Q & AEating Crow by Mithfânion, Didact

Well they do say wisdom comes with time. [i:3bpxpxb9]Just received my February Locus magazine[/i:3bpxpxb9] Ah, I see I'm not the only one who gets his Locus so late in the month that next month's edition is just a few days from coming out :roll: view post


posted 28 Feb 2004, 11:02 in Author Q & AEating Crow by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

DON'T get me started. You'd think Canada must be overseas or something. I reread the August review, and have decided it wasn't so bad afterall. We need a little smiley face with crow feathers sticking out its mouth... view post


posted 28 Feb 2004, 21:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I am saying that you can be held responsible for your actions because everyone else has agreed that thre are things you shouldn't do. We already have this around the world, where different countries have different ideas about what is right and wrong and acceptable or not. Most of them happen to be based on religions, but I believe religions are simply ways of assuaging fears as a group, ane are therefore total human constructs to begin with. view post


SFSite recommended reading list posted 28 Feb 2004, 23:02 in Interviews and ReviewsTDTCB Makes Locus's "Recommended" List by Mithfânion, Didact

And mentioned here in the 2003 recommended reading list by SFSite's William Thompson, as a book which would probably have made his list. http://www.sfsite.com/lists/william2003.htm Nice list btw, very extensive. view post


posted 28 Feb 2004, 23:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Actually, you're saying quite a bit more, aren't you Jack? You're saying that all morality (as opposed to just religion) is a social construct. At least that's what I understood. It's coincidental that you should mention memes, Jonathan, since it was reading about memes back in the mid 80's (in Hofstadter's Metamagical Themas, if I remember aright) that the idea for Kellhus started germinating. It was the first time I ever encountered the notion of ideas behaving as 'mechanisms,' as things which make people DO things, as opposed to little windows on the world. I really have no clue as to how responsibility could fit into a thoroughgoing memetic account, though. Don't the memes make all the choices? view post


Thorough review of TDTCB (MAJOR SPOILERS) posted 29 Feb 2004, 09:02 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeThorough review of TDTCB (MAJOR SPOILERS) by Mithfânion, Didact

Books in Canada "R.Scott Bakker’s The Darkness that Comes Before: Book One of The Prince of Nothing is a deep meditation on philosophy, religion and the state of our world. At the same time it is a top notch exemplar of the fantasy romance sub-genre. Bakker’s interest in philosophy becomes apparent from the start. He opens with an epigraph from Nietzsche’s Beyond Good and Evil, and the first character we meet, Anasûrimbor Kellhus, is an embodiment of Nietsche’s ideals. Nietzsche argued, among other things, that independence is for the strong, that “There are heights of the soul seen from which even tragedy ceases to be tragic,” and that the search for truth cannot be done humanely. Bakker’s Kellhus not only shares these views, they are the essential stuff of his character. That such Nietzschean attitudes exert a certain irresistible pull is undeniable, and this accounts for the exquisite darkness Bakker weaves through his story. As Kellhus, raised by the ascetic survivors of the First Apocalypse, the Dûnyain, begins his impossible quest, he proves himself a superman of Nietzschean dimensions, with a steely conscience and a heart made of brass. What, Bakker seems to be asking, would happen to a man who is physically and mentally superior when he, as Nietzsche puts it, assumes the displeasure of trafficking with ordinary men? Yet Kellhus soon finds himself faced with another claimant to the mantle of the superman, the Scylvendi barbarian Cnaiür urs Skiötha. He, more than Kellhus, represents the Dionysian aspect of the superman Nietzsche dreamed of with great relish-a man for whom all is permitted, as all is permitted in nature. Kellhus gains his superhuman abilities from Dûnyain philosophy that attempts to master the deterministic principle of the ‘Logos’ and strives for a Schopenhauerian denial of desire that Nietzsche would have frowned upon even as he’d be marvelling at the supermen the Dûnyain had become. Cnaiür, on the other hand-as his “prize”, the concubine Serwë comes to realize-looks “down on all outlanders as though from the summit of some godless mountain.” Like Kellhus, he is beyond morality, but unlike Kellhus he indulges his “bestial appetites.” Bakker paints a picture of two supermen with divergent philosophical perspectives, and the reader is left to wonder which of these is the more monstrous-the one who is brutal in his appetites, a Dionysian beyond good and evil like a force of nature--or the one who manipulates those around him as if they were chess pieces while single-mindedly pursuing his own goal, committing and permitting acts of cruelty, heartlessly capitalizing on the hopes and fears of the “herd” around him? While some might wonder what would motivate Bakker to revisit a philosophy of morality which seems to have been thoroughly discredited in the hands of the Nazis, the fact remains that the debate-between those inclined to see a certain rightness in a Nietzschean outlook, in accordance with which the “superior” individual or group of individuals is permitted, nay obligated, to arrogate superior rights to himself or themselves, and those who see morality as derived from maxims such as those set out by Kant (whom Nietzsche vilified), who argued that wishing others well was a human duty whether or not one liked the others-has not been wholly put to rest, particularly in the arena of international politics, the realpolitik. Bakker, while pondering these Nietzschean supermen, also constructs a fascinating civilization from which such individuals emerge: His sub-created world of Eärwa lurches into Holy War. Maithanet, the Shriah of the Thousand Temples (the linguistic markers of whose name and title suggest Islam), declares what is essentially a Crusade to regain the lost holy city where the Latter Prophet, Inri Sejenus (whose name suggests the crucified Christ), taught. While the Thousand Temples is an attempt to reconcile all religions by declaring all deities ‘aspects of the God’, it is the Kianene, whose culture is modelled on that of the pantheistic Hindus, who are the strict monotheists of Eärwa and who reject the teaching of the Latter Prophet (and who also happen to possess the holy city where he taught, Shimeh). Bakker strengthens the identification between the Thousand Temples and the Abrahamic religions with his interchangeable use of the terms “holy war” and “jihad” and by describing the capital of the Thousand Temples in a fashion that evokes Jerusalem. By incorporating Goddess worship and a Germanic tree-worshipping element, Bakker also makes clear that the object of his meditation is not any specific religion, but the religious impulse itself. Bakker has at least one glove off when he offers an epigraph from Ajencis, an ancient Eärwan philosopher, at the start of Chapter Fifteen: “Faith is the truth of passion. Since no passion is more true than another, faith is the truth of nothing.” In that chapter the sorcerer-spy from the ridiculed Mandate school of sorcery, Drusas Achamian lectures the pious crusader Proyas on the nature of faith: “There’s faith that knows itself as faith, Proyas, and there’s faith that confuses itself for knowledge. The first embraces uncertainty, acknowledges the mysteriousness of the God. It begets compassion and tolerance. Who can entirely condemn when they’re not entirely certain they’re in the right? But the second, Proyas, the second embraces certainty and only pays lip service to the God’s mystery. It begets intolerance, hatred, violence….” In such moments particularly, but throughout the work generally, Bakker demonstrates a fine control over the literary conventions of romance and fantasy. He knows that the romance hero is to be the carrier of the values of the reader, and he plays with the time-honoured rule of creating a hero who is unrecognized nobility, the heir to a lost throne, and, of course, young and handsome. His shifting of the action from Kellhus to the low-born, portly and middle-aged Drusas Achaiman defies conventions associated with romance heroes from Sir Gawain to Luke Skywalker. And, in Cnaiür’s unapologetic carnality (and that of other characters, notably Esmenet and Serwë), Bakker’s fantasy further shows its contemporariness. Yet, despite these aspects to his work, he may yet be out of step with current fantasy audiences. Guy Haley makes the matter-of-fact assertion in the pages of SFX Magazine that fantasy is more and more becoming female-audience-driven and this accounts for the soap-opera flavour of successes in the genre since the 80s. Bakker does achieve the soap opera effect in giving us characters we want to follow, but he undermines his own effort to reach out to a female audience by making his only three female characters all appear whorish. That there is some element of truth in the depictions of Esmenet, Serwë, and Istriya, grand dam of House Ikurei of the Nansur Empire, that women will be able to connect with is something that Bakker is gambling on. There is another potential problem with the book: there’s no conclusion. Bakker leaves us hanging in the midst of an action scene and offers an unsatisfying epilogue populated entirely by characters who have never appeared before and who ponder the significance of the book’s final, unfinished events. In this way, Bakker fails to demonstrate the whole of the storyteller’s craft-i.e. the ability to bring a story to a resounding, exhilarating and real conclusion. He makes things even harder on himself because, by buying into the multi-volume format, he places himself at the mercy of editors who will push him relentlessly to produce the next book. If, like Sean Russell in his Swans’ War cycle, Bakker does not significantly shape Book Two, he risks everything. Let’s hope he doesn’t succumb to the pressure and release something beneath both the promise and execution of this excellently written work. But all this forecasting and foreboding cannot take away from the achievements of this book. Throughout, Bakker not only reveals that he is an expert storyteller, but he touches on deep philosophic issues in such a way that any reader will grasp the fundamental principles being tested against each other. He offers us a dark mirror for our strife-torn world, a mirror in which we think we see God when all the while we are only seeing ourselves. " Patrick R. Burger (Books in Canada) view post


posted 29 Feb 2004, 23:02 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeThorough review of TDTCB (MAJOR SPOILERS) by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Wow, that is some review. I disagree about the end though. I found it left me wanting more and not at all dissatisfied, except for the fact that I couldn't immediately race out and buy the next book. view post


posted 29 Feb 2004, 23:02 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I would have to say yes, all morality is just a social construct. However, that doesn't demean it in any way, to my thinking. view post


More laudations... this time from a very important group posted 02 Mar 2004, 14:03 in Interviews and ReviewsMore laudations... this time from a very important group by DrBloodmoney1, Commoner

See [url=http://www.sfsite.com/columns/best04b.htm:ffkt44a6]here[/url:ffkt44a6]. Once again, congratulations. And congratulations to the members of the board... apparently we have good taste :) DrB[/url] view post


posted 02 Mar 2004, 18:03 in Interviews and ReviewsMore laudations... this time from a very important group by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Wow, that is something. It should certainly help kick off the site. view post


TDTCB makes SFsite's yearly top 3 posted 02 Mar 2004, 19:03 in Interviews and ReviewsTDTCB makes SFsite's yearly top 3 by Mithfânion, Didact

http://www.sfsite.com/columns/best04b.htm I have to say this is quite an achievement, and quite a surprise as well, because I wasn't aware so many people had read the book already. The SFsite poll is the biggest SF/Fantasy poll held on the web that I'm aware of, for years has done a pretty fine job of listing the best new books of that particular year (on the bottom of the page you'll find past results, like for instance Erikson's House of Chains that finished first last year). view post


posted 03 Mar 2004, 00:03 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Norsirai, Commoner

Well, my first foray into this board and I must say, I've never seen this kind of author participation before. That said, second, yet foremost, I am deeply obliged to impart my respect for Mr. Bakker, for his work. So thanks man, I'm surreally digging what you've done so far. Somewhat on topic, if I may enjoin, it was [i:e7clv3v9]Hobbes[/i:e7clv3v9] who wrote something along the lines of this (not an exact quote, but close): 'Before the names of Just and Unjust can have a place, there must be some coercive power... ' For, 'where no Covenant hath preceded, every man has a right to everything; and consequently, no action can be Unjust.' The gist essentially being, that an act is only immoral if it is punishable. In context to an individual such as Kellhus, it seems that he is not so much astride this moral/immoral 'nothingness,' but a perpetrator of a process which cannot yet be punished. In this work thus far, there is no agency that can judge him or the ways of the Dunyain. No Leviathan, as it were. … Regarding the story, what I'm curious about at this point is if Kellhus will eventually recognize what comes before, as it pertains to himself. How can he be cognizant of the line of causality and thus possibility, when the Dunyain burnt all the scrolls at Ishual and effectively wiped out the remaining, recorded history of the Kuniuric High Kings (presumably, and not counting the knowledge of Achamian's Order). So, would Kellhus be dismayed that his heritage was not in origin or original tradition (for some time, anyway) actually Dunyain? 'What comes before determines what comes after,' so true, yet despite his vast intellect, Kellhus is quite ignorant of the ‘Historie’ of Earwe, and how his lineage factors into that. Will this shake him, or will he grasp the import immediately... Anasurimbor Kellhus is an utterly fascinating character, but I suppose what I'm asking, is how much will he be developing. view post


Authors posted 03 Mar 2004, 01:03 in Author Q & AOther authors you enjoy by WolfBrotherRelic, Commoner

Hi guys, first time posting here. I just wanted to say that i have been a long time George RR Martin fan. He rescued me from the Wheel of Time series and for that i am eternally grateful. I swear my vision was growing dark and my heart was slowly...fading... During the gap between a Storm of Swords and his yet unreleased A Feast For Crows i turned elsewhere to get my fantasy fix. Living in America i went to my nearest Barnes and Noble and was a tad surprised that the face of fantasy...had not changed. Same crap on the shelves that was there 5 years prior. I became desperate. Thankfully i have a canadian friend who is up to date on the fantasy going on in his country and he streered me towards Erikson. Wow, neat...very cool...but there is somethign missing, i thought. After i devoured the 4 books i was again left without any fantasy to read (i need fantasy damnit! there is only so much "Other" that i can take). And then...bam...my friend starts ranting and raving about TDTCB. I pick it up (actually i order it from amazon.ca) and i have to say...i now have a second favorite fantasy author, and his name is Scott Bakker. Your writing rules Ser. Please keep it up and please continue to feed my addiction. view post


posted 03 Mar 2004, 02:03 in Off-Topic DiscussionHow did you get here? by Anonymous, Subdidact

Found out from Loose. view post


posted 03 Mar 2004, 02:03 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeRelease Dates by Malarion, Candidate

Due to the fact that I don't like the UK covers at all, I'll be sending for the Canadian editions of these books. They are so much cooler. I also don't like waiting. :P Anybody else hate the UK cover? view post


posted 03 Mar 2004, 02:03 in Author Q & AOther authors you enjoy by Malarion, Candidate

Going on what was said a little earlier, I find myself in full agreement. It bugs me when fantasy writers dry to drive modern ideals down my throat (masses of female soldiers in the army etc, modern democracy). The fact people have called your work sexist is irritating. Your story is set in a ancient society. In our world, visably powerful women were rare. Why do reviewers forget that time and time again. Maybe they should be reading SciFi or some other shit. view post


posted 03 Mar 2004, 04:03 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeRelease Dates by Anonymous, Subdidact

the canadian cover for TDTCB is awesome, highly recommended. amazon.ca is a good bet. publishers in the US always insist on lame "fantasy-ish" covers, maybe it translates into sales? i dunno view post


posted 03 Mar 2004, 05:03 in Interviews and ReviewsMore laudations... this time from a very important group by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Very cool beans. Now I know what the word flabbergasted means. view post


posted 03 Mar 2004, 13:03 in Author Q & AOther authors you enjoy by LooseCannon, Peralogue

I agree, Mal. I hate to go off on a tangent but this is what angered me about the new movie the Passion of the Christ. Besides all the other controversy the one thing that really irritated me was that people are calling this film too violent. It is like they expect the film not only to be politically correct by today's standards but also to sanitize it for today's sensitive market. How can you learn about history when modern ideals are inserted to appeal to today's audience. It isn't right I tell you! view post


posted 03 Mar 2004, 14:03 in Interviews and ReviewsMore laudations... this time from a very important group by LooseCannon, Peralogue

Here's hoping many people use that as their shopping list the next time they are in a bookstore. view post


posted 04 Mar 2004, 13:03 in Off-Topic DiscussionHow did you get here? by Khelldarn, Commoner

I came from the Malazan boards. view post


posted 05 Mar 2004, 18:03 in Author Q & AOther authors you enjoy by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

I still have to see the bloody thing (and I mean that literally - apparently, the screen Jesus bleeds enough to drain five men). I'm pretty cynical about all the 'controversy,' though. Smells like marketing to me... view post


posted 05 Mar 2004, 21:03 in Off-Topic DiscussionHow did you get here? by Myself, Commoner

Came here by divine intervention. view post


posted 05 Mar 2004, 22:03 in Author Q & AOther authors you enjoy by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Loose- I don't think its fair to call the movie a film about history. If it happened, which seems likely, it was all so long ago that I think it is really the telling of a story witha point. view post


TDTCD third on SFsite's year's best list! posted 06 Mar 2004, 11:03 in Author Q & ATDTCD third on SFsite's year's best list! by Mithfânion, Didact

This is some pretty high praise. SFsite's yearly poll is the biggest Fantasy/Sci fi poll that I'm aware of, and for years has been listing the year's best books (as you will see below). Darkness didn't even appear on the editor's list but the readers voted it third, which surprised me because I didn't know so many people had read the book already. Check out past year's winners to get some reference (Erikson won in 2002 with House of Chains) http://www.sfsite.com/columns/best04b.htm view post


posted 06 Mar 2004, 13:03 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeThorough review of TDTCB (MAJOR SPOILERS) by Myself, Commoner

LOL I had a schoolmate who was a nietzsche fanatic. He was more of a nihilist though. I agree that the ending is wanting, as ideally all books should stand alone on their own. But I don't think TDtCB is romance-oriented. After all, in all genre fiction, characters are the principal vessels of the story. It felt more epic to me. The grip I had with this otherwise excellent novel is that it is sometimes self-indulgent (much less so however than the review!), a flaw I remarked recently in many authors. view post


posted 06 Mar 2004, 13:03 in Author Q & ATDTCD third on SFsite's year's best list! by Myself, Commoner

Yeah, I thought it amazing! However popularity contest should always be taken with a pinch of salt, although SF polls seem fairly sensitive. As to the Editor list, maybe many contributors didn't get to read the book (even if it has got a nice reputation on the net, which is why I suspect so many internauts voted for it) view post


posted 06 Mar 2004, 15:03 in Philosophy DiscussionOn The Warrior Prophet by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Hi Norsirai! In answer to your general question: The Dunyain are engaged in something similar to a Husserlian epoche, an attempt to bracket the untoward influences of history. Kellhus would likely cite some version of the genetic fallacy: so long as the destination is true, the point of origin is irrelevant. view post


Stephen Erikson's Books posted 08 Mar 2004, 22:03 in Literature DiscussionStephen Erikson's Books by Wil, Head Moderator

I recently started [i:nnxfpezn]Gardens of the Moon[/i:nnxfpezn] by Stephen Erikson, and I"m about 150 pages into it. My question is whether this is the first book (I saw no book order when I bought them) and if it is, do things get more explained (ie magic, the Deck of Dragons etc.)? I would appreciate it if this remained a NON-SPOILER thread. view post


posted 09 Mar 2004, 00:03 in Literature DiscussionStephen Erikson's Books by Kellais, Commoner

Hi Wil Yes, GotM IS the first book. Followed by Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice, House of Chains and, released this march, Midnight Tides. And yes, you will get more explanations but all so slowly. But that is fun IMO. Steven Erikson teases us with a lot of glimpses and then leaves us dangling....i like that (as long as it will be explained somewhere!). So my advice is, keep on reading... :wink: Kellais P.S.: Was that spoiler-less enough? *lol* view post


posted 09 Mar 2004, 00:03 in Literature DiscussionStephen Erikson's Books by Wil, Head Moderator

yes thats perfect. view post


Hello to the author and everyone... posted 09 Mar 2004, 15:03 in Author Q & AHello to the author and everyone... by Vanarys, Commoner

New member here. Thought I'd drop in and say hi. Unlike everyone else here (most probably) I still haven't read TDTCB or TWP but have no fear I shall soon enough. Of course, I stopped by www.princeofnothing.com and read the excerpt, during which I was just completely caught of guard and floored. Awesome stuff. I was going to wait patiently for the books to hit US shores, but I might just say screw it and order it from amazon.ca as I'm chomping a bit at the mouth now... :( Anyway, I have one or two questions for Mr. Bakker, if he's not to busy to answer them (he's working on the third book right?). First of all, when you sit down and write a story or just write period, how do you start off and what methods do you use to maintain consistency? You mentioned before in another thread that some people helped or taught you how to write, could you go about listing or perhaps stating some of the methods here? Secondly, something struck me as funny, I don't claim to be a psychoanalyst or a Dunyain (I wish! 8)) by any means, but in your stories do you treat your characters as "the" question and the world around them as the answer? It seems to me that in the novels and stories that I have read, the ones that end up being tedious or just downright boring to me are the ones which treat the character as somehow the answer. Does that make sense? Not sure if I can phrase this any other way. But wait, alternately, you could also argue that Kellhus seems to be the answer to every question, every circumstance (or almost every) within your novel. Hrm. Blah, anyway, looking forward to ravaging/consuming your books in a matter of hours after I get them, such as I do with all great books that I get. :wink: view post


posted 09 Mar 2004, 17:03 in Author Q & AHello to the author and everyone... by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Welcome Vanarys! I have a tremendous amount of notes regarding Earwa that I've been accumulating since about 1980. And yet, I very rarely reference them - I've been living with the world so long it rarely seems that I need to. As far as world-building consistency goes, the only real MO I have is immersion and time. Being a dweeb helps... As far as writing and writing advice goes, the single most important thing I think any writer can do is to join an online workshop (for me it was the old Del Rey Online Writers Workshop - the DROWW - which has since become independent and morphed into the OWW). There's so many skills that I learned there, and perhaps even more importantly, so many writers that I met. As for the character-as-question vs character-as-answer issue. I really don't think there's an answer to which is 'best' - it all depends on what a writer is trying to accomplish. If, for instance, popularity and sales are the driving goal, then it seems to me that treating characters as answers is the best way to proceed. At least that's what seems to sell. For my own part, I try to let the story decide whether a character will be a question or an answer at any particular point. I actually look at Kellhus as an exception, in this sense. He is almost pure question - but then, THAT's the story! view post


posted 09 Mar 2004, 18:03 in Author Q & AHello to the author and everyone... by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Glad you decided to join, Vanarys! Scott, can anyone join the OWW, or is it for published or fulltime writers? I think it could be fun to get involved with writing, but I know (or at least am pretty sure) that I don't want to do it as a career. view post


posted 09 Mar 2004, 19:03 in Author Q & AHello to the author and everyone... by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Anyone can join, though I think they now charge a modest monthly fee. It's definitely worth it, though. This might sound pessimistic, but I wouldn't recommend that anyone make writing their primary career choice. The odds are nothing short of insane. Even once you get published, I think there's only something like a 1 in 10 chance that your book will succeed. I lucked into this gig, and even still, when I think back to it, it seemed that every mountain I scraped and scrambled up simply revealed another mountain to be climbed. My advice is to approach writing as any other serious hobby - as something to be done for its own sake. This also gives you the freedom to experiment, to come up with your own voice, rather than relentlessly trying to stuff yourself into boxes built by others (if you join the OWW, you'll meet many, many people who'll try to convince you this is what MUST be done - but don't listen. If I had a nickel for every person who told me to avoid character interiors, purge all figurative language, etc...). It's win-win if it's just a hobby, no matter what happens. Even if TDTCB hadn't been published, I'd still be working on the world - and loving it! view post


OS's and Browsers posted 09 Mar 2004, 22:03 in Off-Topic DiscussionOS's and Browsers by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I was wondering what OS's and browsers our different users are using, and if anyone is into computers or programming or web design, etc. At home I use Red Hat Linux 9 and the Mozilla browser, though I am going to switch to Firefox. I dabble in web design with php, mysql, and apache, but am looking to expand into java. If no one finds this interesting, don't worry about replying. view post


Linking posted 09 Mar 2004, 22:03 in General AnnouncementsLinking by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

We would like to be listed as high on Google as possible, for obvious reasons. The more links from CREDIBLE, established sites the better. So as you spread the word about the forum and books, post links as well as the name, for Scott's site as well as ours. Thanks. view post


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