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Achamian and Seswatha posted 16 Mar 2006, 09:03 by Brady, Candidate

It states somewhere in the glossary that Seswatha and Celmonas II suffered a rift in their relationship. It even speculates that the rift arose from rumours that Seswatha seduced Cel's favoured wife, and was the true father of Cel's famous son Nau Cayuti. Ses and Cel were renconciled only on the eve of the Apocalypse. I'm wondering if the future between Akka and Kellhus will be at all similar. The source of their rift is partly (some might say mostly) due to Kellhus' current 'wife', Esmenet. I can almost see rumours circulating in TTT that Esmenet's son by Kellhus is really Akka's offspring. Also, Akka's last dream in TTT featured Kellhus in the place of Anaxphorus at the Plans of Mengedda, which can be interpreted many different ways, including a bit of foreshadowing that Akka and Kellhus will face down the reborn No-God together. Another similarity is that Seswatha seems to have been one of the first Men to try to warn the world about the Consult, just as Akka was one of the first Men to learn of the true danger posed by the Consult in the present day (first after Moenghus, of course) Granted, not everything is the same. Seswatha seems to have been the prime sorceror in the Ancient North, and was Grandmaster of the most powerful School in Kuiniuri, while Achamian is merely one of several ranking sorcerors in the Mandate, with nothing to indicate that he outstrips any other Mandatti sorceror of rank in power. view post


posted 16 Mar 2006, 13:03 by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

wow, that's some pretty cool speculation :) . I would've never thought of comparing Seswatha and Celmomas to Achamian and Kellhus...I like the idea, paralleling two men, one a gnostic schoolman and the other an Anasurimbor, one pair of them in different times. Both at odds and both fighting against different apocalypses. I guess it's possible that history repeats itself in Earwa as well. view post


posted 16 Mar 2006, 17:03 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Yea, I had thought all along that there were parallels between the two, was rather obvious to me that that was the intent all along. view post


posted 16 Mar 2006, 20:03 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

I think there are alot of parallels in the books and I think they were fairly obvius and intended. view post


posted 16 Mar 2006, 20:03 by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

fine...I'm retarded :cry: :lol: view post


posted 16 Mar 2006, 22:03 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

O i wasnt implying anything like you being retarted i was just saying that there are alot of parallels evident and I think they are intended. view post


posted 16 Mar 2006, 23:03 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

I agree WP view post


posted 17 Mar 2006, 03:03 by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

don't take being a retard away from me :cry: that's all I have left....seriously tho, what would be the point of akka and kellhus (what is kellhus' nickname anyway?) kissing and making up when kellhus already has far surpassed achamian's abilities in the gnosis? sometimes i wonder why kellhus kept him alive at the end..tho I'm very very glad he did. He's no longer of use to kellhus...so as far as them settling their differences, I don't know if [i:1rdvswwo]that[/i:1rdvswwo] will ever happen, but I did appreciate the finely crafted parallel that, appearently, only I didn't recognize....and thanks for not calling me a retard wp :D ... view post


posted 17 Mar 2006, 06:03 by unJon, Auditor

That's interesting Edge. I think its most likely that Kellhus does have some reason for wanting him alive. But Kellhus did not have a reason for not killing Cnaiur in TWP... view post


posted 17 Mar 2006, 13:03 by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

yeah, I always assumed that that stemmed from the "maddness" (how mohengus sees it, anyway) that Kellhus started to undergo...since he says to himself, "What is this, father? pity?" before he decides not to strike down Cnaiur. But when Akka confronts him at the end, Kellhus doesn't even question whether or not to keep him alive. So I don't know, did Kellhus keep from killing Akka out of pity (or madness) or does Akka still have somthing to teach him? I wonder what, if so? view post


posted 18 Mar 2006, 03:03 by Brady, Candidate

[quote="Edge of Certainty":jrgai3lz]don't take being a retard away from me :cry: that's all I have left....seriously tho, what would be the point of akka and kellhus (what is kellhus' nickname anyway?) kissing and making up when kellhus already has far surpassed achamian's abilities in the gnosis? sometimes i wonder why kellhus kept him alive at the end..tho I'm very very glad he did. He's no longer of use to kellhus...so as far as them settling their differences, I don't know if [i:jrgai3lz]that[/i:jrgai3lz] will ever happen, but I did appreciate the finely crafted parallel that, appearently, only I didn't recognize....and thanks for not calling me a retard wp :D ...[/quote:jrgai3lz] Yeah, the comparison isn't totally fitting. Seswatha was probably a lot more powerful than Akka. Also, Celmomas probably needed Seswatha's help a lot more than Kellhus will need Akka's. We can only speculate on what (if any) role Akka will have in TTT. The only thing that Akka possesses that might be of use to kellhus now is his knowledge of 'forbidden' sorcery, like the Wathi doll, so perhaps Akka will spend the net 20 years delving into those forgotten and forbidden arts. view post


posted 18 Mar 2006, 04:03 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

[quote:20ui2bdh]Yeah, the comparison isn't totally fitting. Seswatha was probably a lot more powerful than Akka. Also, Celmomas probably needed Seswatha's help a lot more than Kellhus will need Akka's. [/quote:20ui2bdh] I don't think its safe to say that Celmomas needed Seswatha more than Kellhus needs Akka, if our speculations are correct that Akka is becoming almost a Seswatha incarnate then who knows what kind of knowledge he could obtain such as the knowledge of where the Worldhorn and Heron Spear are located. view post


posted 18 Mar 2006, 05:03 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Akka I think will still be a source of Knowledge, and as mentioned I have a feeling he is going to be delving into lost and forbidden sorceries now that he is an outcast Wizard. view post


posted 18 Mar 2006, 12:03 by Edge of Certainty, Subdidact

I agree, Akka will become great in the three seas. At first it doesn't make sense for me to say that, now that he's a wizard and an outcast from the Zaudunyani (if that's what they still call themselves) since he rebuked Kellhus, but remember, he still hasn't written the [i:tmdaztc4]Compendium of the First Holy War[/i:tmdaztc4], and why would he be compelled to write a book if noone would be compelled to read it? So I say it's completely plausible that Akka might still have somthing to offer Kellhus in AE. There's also the possibility that Kellhus might plummet so far into the "madness " that he starts feeling compassion and other "legion" and forgive Akka. Or maybe I'm a sentimental fool who wants the cool character to be the "good guy." :oops: :( But hey, it's all just speculation anyway :lol: . view post


posted 18 Mar 2006, 18:03 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

I don't think Kelhus will ever be a true "good guy" :) I think Scott is going to stay away from some of those tried and tested Fantasy cliches as much as possible by having our hero by somewhat murky as far as good/evil goes. He isn't really either. I don't think Akka will become great in the Three Seas during the intervening 20 years we have between TTT and AE, just that he will accumulate alot of knowledge. I believe he will be penning his Compendium of the First Holy War during this 20 year span as well, remember in TTT the quote from it where he was frightened that the authorities could kick in his door any minute. He is obviously a pariah for speaking the truth, and I believe a man on the run. Never the less he will be important in some sense I think. view post


posted 13 Apr 2006, 02:04 by glaz, Peralogue

a lot can happen in 20 years. kellhus being an aspect-emperor for 20 years will result in him being a "god among men." but then again, he's gonna get caught up iwth everything that's happening around him. akka, on one hand, is alone. no friends, no belongings, and no "morning." all he has is the gnosis. in 20 years, i think we might just see him be as powerful, if not surpass, seswatha. as to kellhus and his own knowledge, he will also become powerful, but he IMO will find need for akka. view post


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