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September 11th posted 12 Sep 2006, 22:09 by Hellscythe, Auditor

I know, I should have posted this yesterday, but I was with my dad, so I couldnt. I want all of your views on what happened 5 years ago yesterday, how it has affected the country, and how you each personally have been affected. You can state other facts relevant to the topic, but I want all of your opinions. view post

posted 13 Sep 2006, 16:09 by Harrol, Moderator

Wow! What a broad topic. I know this will sound negative but i see two big mistakes. We tied Iraq into the war on terrorism and the other mistake was nor pursuing actual terrorist more ruthlessly. It is almost like we are using 9-11 as an excuse to occupy foriegn land. If we must go into a place to fight then we should go in kill and leave. The internal affairs of a country are their own. All we should dictate is consequences to them for harboring and suppling those that will kill our fellow countrymen. view post

posted 13 Sep 2006, 17:09 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

i wasn;t really affected by it.. on 9/11 i made sure to avoid newspapers, tv, and people. view post

posted 13 Sep 2006, 19:09 by Harrol, Moderator

Gierra I thought that was your normal behaviour. I mean avoiding people and news papers. view post

posted 14 Sep 2006, 14:09 by Hellscythe, Auditor

:chuckles: Nice one Harrol. Anyway. Harrol, can you tell me your views on the world before 9/11 and how they may have been changed afterward? Anyone else can chime in if they like. view post

posted 14 Sep 2006, 17:09 by Harrol, Moderator

Well i held the belief of open trade and friendship with all. I hoped that if we would maintain a neutral posture towards all nations that we would not easily be drawn into wars. i still hold this belief, but yet we have interfered and now are attacked by an organization viewing us as the great evil of the world. Now for our own prestige/safety sake we must crush this organization, and persue a more open friendship/nuetral stance with the world. I believed before 9-11 that all nations are sovereign and therefore responsible for their own internal affairs. I still hold to this belief. view post

posted 14 Sep 2006, 19:09 by Krijates Iryssas, Candidate

[quote="Harrol":ew2mru71]I hoped that if we would maintain a neutral posture towards all nations that we would not easily be drawn into wars.[/quote:ew2mru71] Do you really think that before 9/11 the US had a neutral posture towards all nations? My own answer: 5 years ago I was turning 20. It's the first time something happening in another country was touching me so closely. Not only because I was, for the first time, following the events online, among people who lived it more closely, but because it was the first event of that magnitude was seeing. I remember Liberation, the main Left leaning French newspaper, titled "Nous somme tous Americains" (We are all Americans), and you'd have to be foolish to not see that, that we were all targetted. I suppose Historian will count it the start of the XXIth century, and we know everything that it has inaugured. I have the feeling that, to this day, most peope have no idea how to fight terrorism, and mostly are playing to their hands. The world is more segmented, the US more criticized as ever - sometimes rightly, sometimes for the wrong reasons. Fear is more omnipresent and many people make use of it, which makes me rage. This is much more are the consequences most of the Western world live with since. But the only way I was personnaly affected is that people remember my birthday more easily, now. view post

posted 14 Sep 2006, 20:09 by Harrol, Moderator

Sorry Krijates Iryssas I miss wrote that. No I do not think we had a neutral stance pre 9-11. We had a very interferring stance in the world and even more so now. Again forgive my lack of explaination. The men that formed the constitutional gavernment of this nation heavily encouraged a neutral stance to all nations and that is what I was thinking about but did not explain. view post

posted 14 Sep 2006, 20:09 by Krijates Iryssas, Candidate

You definitly don't need to appologize. Thank you for your explaination :) view post

posted 15 Sep 2006, 02:09 by alhana, Auditor

On 9/11/01, I was living a very undirected and rather routine life. I got up, took care of the details of the day, and went back to bed. I was in a transition period and felt I was in an everlasting fog. I was struggling with a depressive and blaise existence. That morning, as I woke up, the first plane had just crashed and then I was suddenly wake.....something that did not usually happen till many hours into my day. Then I watched the next plane crash and the next and the next..and then the dizzy media and information frenzy that followed. Living in the NW US, we didn't know if there would be another plane that would hit a target in the NW and take out a power plant or a major dam that could flood an entire region. In an instant, my miserable and rather boring life exploded and I knew that the things that I was alllowing to make me miserable were nothing compared to the misery I was witnessing. I turned a corner in my life that day. Over the next few weeks, I patched up relationships that needed reconcilation not wanting to be like the woman I saw on the TV that had never been able to say she was sorry and take back the hurtful words she said to her husband the night before. I had a baby, a 9/11 baby, and that child continues to be the source of merriment and inspiration as I realize that without the hope of the next generation we have nothing. And finally, I broke out of an oppessive religious sect that had me mired down in guilt and condemnation to seek true spiritual awakening. But this year, I mentioned to someone that it had been 5 years and she said, "I am not focusing on that because I do not want to focus my mental enegry on fear or terror, but peace." Though this event touched my life and pushed me to make positive changes in my life, I realized that she was right. The more we focus on the wrongs that others have done to us, there can be no forgiveness. Mother Theresa once said that she would not support an anti-war rally but she would always attend a pro-peace convention. So, I embrace peace and not on terror. Though I am not perfect, I will stop focusing on the negative things in my life and on the positive ways I can make good the focus of my energy. I will continue to strive to live the days of my life to make an account for the life in my days. view post

posted 16 Sep 2006, 00:09 by Hellscythe, Auditor

:Nods: That was very insightful Alhana. see, this is one of the things Im looking for. I wonder now, five years later, about the circumstances that kept my dad from being in the north tower that day. Five years ago, he worked for Lexent telecom, and on September 10th, he was working on the 93rd floor in the North Tower. He was to go back up there the next day, but had not recieved the necessary equipment to finish the job, and so was sent to another job on 42nd Street. At the time, I did not know this, and, while in class, when I heard about the planes hitting the twin towers, my heart practically stopped, for at that point, I feared for my father's safety. It wasnt until the next day did I hear from him, for the cellphone network in manhattan was in disarray, and he didnt get a chance to get to a phone until the 12th. I was so glad to hear his voice, as was the rest of my family. view post

posted 18 Sep 2006, 02:09 by Harrol, Moderator

Wow Hellscythe that is pretty close to home then for you. view post

posted 18 Sep 2006, 13:09 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

[quote="Harrol":39bj4eh3]Gierra I thought that was your normal behaviour. I mean avoiding people and news papers.[/quote:39bj4eh3] ya, you got me there. :lol: view post

posted 19 Sep 2006, 15:09 by Hellscythe, Auditor

Yea, it was pretty close to home. Even now, as I sit here, I wonder how my life might be different if my father happened to be in there when the towers fell. Would I be one of those at Ground Zero each year, standing by my mom as she spoke my father's name. Would I be sitting here now, or would I be doing something different. Who knows, I might have gotten myself to lose the weight and get into the military, as so many young people did in the days after 9/11. I think of all these things as I sit here, typing... view post

posted 21 Sep 2006, 22:09 by Hellscythe, Auditor

Anyone else want to speak of their experiences on that day? or how they feel the country or the world was affected? view post

posted 22 Sep 2006, 13:09 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

ok, i'll try to be serious for once. when it happened, my job had me starting at 1 om, so i was not even awake yet. my mum called me, in tears, and mumbled something about an attack but couldn;t say much more. i ran upstairs to flip on the tv and for about half an hour, the news would only show them talking about re-routing planes and stuff about pearson airport, but they never mentioned what happened. finally they showed some footage and i was astonished. my personal opinions of amaerica aside, i remember thinking how terrible it was. my mum has family that live in the states, albeit in california, but she also has many friends who live in the states of new york and pennsylvania. it never affected any of my family directly, and i can;t imagine what it must have been like for those that it did. when i read through this thread i'm happy to see that while it was a terrible event, that it had some good in changing how many people viewed their lives and how they are with their family, and so on. shit happens, and no matter how terrible it is, life has to go on and people have to learn something from it. it's sad to see that it has affected way too many people in the opposite fashion, making them full of only anger and hatred and grief, making them want to go to war. although, perhaps i would feel differently if it were to have happened in toronto, and my family had been included in the deathtoll. view post

posted 22 Sep 2006, 13:09 by Harrol, Moderator

I agree on that our war in Iraq had no direct bearing on terrorism. Iraq has a different purpose toward destabalizing the Middle East. Yet we had to respond ruthlessly toward those that did attack us. If not then you are encouraging them to keep attacking you. view post

posted 22 Sep 2006, 20:09 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

i dunno.. i thought we always told kids not to fight back with bullies, that you should ignore them, that violence is not an answer. ha! who am i kidding? view post

posted 22 Sep 2006, 22:09 by Hellscythe, Auditor

Well Gierra. Normally, something like that might work, but remember, kids who usually ignored the bully prolly wound up getting beat up worse. Besides, there were other attacks that led up to 9/11, like the embassy bombings in Africa, then the first attack on the twin towers. We didnt do much after the embassy bombings, and even after the first attack on the towers, we didnt do enough, so we reaped what we sow. view post

posted 25 Sep 2006, 13:09 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

in short: i agree. in long: i have filled my quota of serious opinions and am returning to being a sarcastic bitch. view post

posted 25 Sep 2006, 16:09 by Harrol, Moderator

Wow that did not take long. I believe that our interference in the Middle East also helped to make us a target in their eyes. view post

posted 25 Sep 2006, 18:09 by Hellscythe, Auditor

:Nods: That is true Harrol. Or rather, made us a bigger target. Because remember, in the 70's and 80's the radical islamic groups hated all westerners. But, after Desert storm and other subsequent U.S military actions in the middle east, the terrorist groups turned their sights squarely on us. view post

posted 26 Sep 2006, 13:09 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

well really, if you start poking a dog in the eye with a stick, you can;t be so surprised when he lunges at you and bites your face off. eh? view post

posted 26 Sep 2006, 18:09 by Harrol, Moderator

The question is why do we interfer so much over there? Is it just for money and oil. I believe that is a large part of it. I do not believe that is the only reason. We have a policy of encouraging war and instability there and I believe it is due to fear. Fear of what? A united Middle East. Is that such a scary idea? To answer that I would have to say that many in power would say yes. view post

posted 26 Sep 2006, 19:09 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

i love how people assume it's about oil. um, canada is americas largest supplier of oil. are they gonna invade us next in their 'war on terrorism'? the problem, i think, is that america is made up of people who left places like the middle east and africa and asia for something better. so they assume that everyone else wants this 'spmething better' too and feel the need to interfere in shit that aint their business. while the middle east has always had problems between muslims, jews and christians, it really hasn;t been this bad (excluding the crusades). the united states simply cannot accept that another culture can be correct along side of them. they fight for democracy, but fail to realise that not everyone wants it. view post

posted 26 Sep 2006, 20:09 by Harrol, Moderator

True freedom and democracy can only come from within and not from without. I believe we fear a united Middle Eastern military front and what they could do and would be willing to do. view post

posted 26 Sep 2006, 22:09 by Hellscythe, Auditor

That might be true Harrol. But it might actually be that we fear a United Middle East that doesnt support us, because if that happens, the world stage can change greatly. Especially if more groups like hezbollah form in Iraq and other places. view post

posted 27 Sep 2006, 13:09 by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

[quote="Harrol":1bkg7pk0]True freedom and democracy can only come from within and not from without. I believe we fear a united Middle Eastern military front and what they could do and would be willing to do.[/quote:1bkg7pk0] i'll bet that's true. but in that case, why make up some bullshit, why not be upfront about it. i guess that's my biggest problem with the american government. they hide so much of their motives and their actions that you can bever really be sure what they're up to. all i can say, tho, is that all great world powers have risen and fallen.. view post

posted 27 Sep 2006, 13:09 by Harrol, Moderator

Again that is true. We constantly are making up reasons for our wars that are not our true motives. Why? Because the truth is ugly and it leaves the general population without a warm and fuzzy feeling. To say guess what we want turmoil in the Middle East in order to prevent the rise of a caliphate and the possible expansionary wars that this caliphate may conduct. That would be so intangible to most Americans so we have to lie and say oh this is for terrorism and 9-11. When actually it is to prevent the rise of the Middle East. Yes that includes what actions we are taking against Iran too. view post


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