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Speculation on Iyokus' future role posted 07 Nov 2006, 18:11 by Will, Peralogue

Iyokus seems tailor made, at the end of TTT, as an enemy of Kellhus. There are several reasons that it seems this way to me. 1. As a blind man Iyokus is immune to a substantial portion of Kellhus' posessing arsenal. Kellhus' appearance, his haloes, his perfectly crafted expressions, all useless. 2. As a chanv addict (chanv is believed to extend life and kill the emotions) he is presumably harder to posess. Kellhus controls people primarily by revealing truths to them which prompt emotions of gratitude and adoration. Iyokus's emotions are so dead that when Akka is coming to kill him he feels a memory of fear, and not actual fear. 3. Iyokus has a power that Kellhus most likely lacks. The Mandate do not have Daimotic sorcery, thus Kellhus cannot improve on it unless he derives it himself, or learns it from a Scarlet Spire. While I don't doubt he'd do that in a second if he knew of the Daimos, I don't recall Akka ever telling him about it, and I certainly can't see Nautzera et al spoiling their moment of triumph by admitting that those feeble Anagogic sorcerers can do something the Mandate doesn't yet know how to do. 4. Iyokus has a faction, but not such a great faction that Kellhus MUST posess him. At the end of TTT he's wearing Elezearus' robes, so he's the SS grandmaster, but they have been decimated. He's probably the Grandmaster of the weakest school in the Three Seas. 5. As a person with no emotions who has done awful, awful things he is a prime candidate for Moenghus/Consult's belief system. The rational thing to do to escape damnation is to close the world. I don't see the SS former spymaster as someone who would let scruples prevent him. Thus, I think Iyokus will be one of the only disloyal folks in Kellhus' court. I seem to recall there was a similar cadre in Paul's court in the dune books. view post


posted 07 Nov 2006, 19:11 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Your connection to the Dune books is valid, as are many of your points. Referring to the Daimos, all sorcerers and Schools are capable of using Daimotic sorcery however only the SS has delved so deeply into it, most Schools and sorcerers choose not to use Daimotic sorcery as to not suffer the agony the agencies they summon will inflict upon them. Iyokus will likely be a double agent so to speak, and a definite thorn in Kellhus side. view post


posted 07 Nov 2006, 22:11 by anor277, Didact

I think you are suggesting that Iyokus might escape "possession" because of his irrelevance - i.e. he is powerful but not powerful enough. For me it's hard to see Iyokus as little more than a nuisance. While he is a practitioner of the Daimos, we have seen how impotent Daimotic sorcery is against the Gnosis; against Kellhus, who might develop the Gnosis to a new level, a demon might not even clear the gun out of the holster. It would also be difficult for Iyokus or indeed anyone prominent to engage in intrigue with the Consult. And then why should Iyokus do so? He is damned (possibly), but then he was damned before, and Kellhus might offer absolution. Also Iyokus, alone of his school, was aware of the possibility that the Consult existed. He is possibly also aware now that Kellhus represents the Three Seas' only hope. It was mentioned that no-one in the Three-Seas knew the source of chanv, to which Iyokus is addicted; if the Consult are the source maybe they will use this as a lever. view post


posted 08 Nov 2006, 20:11 by Will, Peralogue

I concur that demons might be ineffective against Kellhus' person, but as Aspect Emperor his designs will doubtless include many people far less invulnerable. It might even be that his role is to get chumped to show how cool Kellhus is. As to the why, if one has escaped posession there is little reason to follow Kellhus. Universally the reaction to discovering his "true motives" is abject horror and rejection. Cnaiur, Akka...upon awakening they repudiate him. In the chanv-enforced calm Kellhus' claims to salvation may ring less clear than the Consults. Another possibilty is that Iyokus has enough emotion to remember hate. Now this is sort of me trying to have it both ways, but Kellhus had his minion take the man's eyes. Iyokus might not be able to forgive that, or alternatively he could be simply power hungry. He might blame Kellhus for the near-extinction of the SS. There are many reasons to oppose Kellhus. I like your idea about the chanv supply also, I had missed that. view post


posted 08 Nov 2006, 22:11 by anor277, Didact

[quote="Will":18ibsxku]I concur that demons might be ineffective against Kellhus' person, but as Aspect Emperor his designs will doubtless include many people far less invulnerable. It might even be that his role is to get chumped to show how cool Kellhus is. As to the why, if one has escaped posession there is little reason to follow Kellhus. Universally the reaction to discovering his "true motives" is abject horror and rejection. Cnaiur, Akka...upon awakening they repudiate him. In the chanv-enforced calm Kellhus' claims to salvation may ring less clear than the Consults. Another possibilty is that Iyokus has enough emotion to remember hate. Now this is sort of me trying to have it both ways, but Kellhus had his minion take the man's eyes. Iyokus might not be able to forgive that, or alternatively he could be simply power hungry. He might blame Kellhus for the near-extinction of the SS. There are many reasons to oppose Kellhus. I like your idea about the chanv supply also, I had missed that.[/quote:18ibsxku] I certainly don't discount the possibility of Iyokus turning to the Consult for any number of reasons. However, the man responsible for taking Iyokus' eyes was not Kellhus nor even Achamian, it was his then grandmaster Eleazaras - he was offered as a sop to Achamian to prevent his (A's) indiscriminate vengeance; Eleazaras also must bear the major responsibility for the evisceration of his own school. And as the spymaster of the Scarlet Spires, Iyokus must fully realise this (he said something of the sort when he met Achamian again?). In fact Iyokus, fairly emotionless, might even be grateful to Achamian for his forbearance. The punishment fitted the crime. As regards Cnaiur's and Achamian repudiation of Kellhus when they are "awakened", are they reacting to Kellhus' moral degeneracy; or are they simply reacting to the fact that they have been used as means? Both Achamian, the former spy, and Cnaiur, the psychopathic rapist and wife beater, must know all about using people as means not ends - Achamian at the least desires that Kellhus achieves those ends. [i:18ibsxku]edited to labour the point[/i:18ibsxku] view post


posted 09 Nov 2006, 13:11 by Harrol, Moderator

Kellhus owns Iyokus or soon will. Kellhus was part of Iyokus being raised. Some may say the books do not say that but yet tell me one major promotion that could happen in Kellhus's presence without him owning it. Kellhus will probably offer Iyokus the gnosis in order to futher shackle him. If not then Kellhus will simply kill him. view post


posted 09 Nov 2006, 18:11 by Will, Peralogue

From an "in-book" stance I've already given my reasons I don't think Iyokus will be posessed. From an "out-of-book" stance: I don't think that is likely, given that Kellhus has many minions already. From a narrative standpoint Iyokus' development to this point is squandered if he becomes basically a different colored Nautzera. view post


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