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dusted off in read-only


A Game of Thrones posted 09 Jul 2004, 05:07 by Prophet, Commoner

Hey all. I figured that, since we have a thread dealing with [i:10n7xe01]Gardens of the Moon[/i:10n7xe01], we should have a thread dealing with my preference, [i:10n7xe01]A Game of Thrones[/i:10n7xe01] from George R. R. Martin. Took me a while to get into it... but once I did, the series began soaring. Comments? view post

posted 09 Jul 2004, 08:07 by The Consult, Candidate

Undeniably one of the best fantasy series out there at the moment, with lots of twists, turns and deaths to really keep you guessing. I think a Storm of Swords is my fav in the series so far, followed by A Games of Thrones then a Clash of Kings. I also love the parallel story lines he has happening at the moment, and i'm really curious as to how these plots will become entwined. Only one loooooooong do we have to wait for Martin to get his act together and finish A Feast for Crows? Overall though, Martin is definately in my top 5. view post

posted 09 Jul 2004, 12:07 by Replay, Auditor

I have a strange relationship with the ASOIAF series. It has just about everything I want in a book: good plot, interesting characters, some of the best prose i've seen, pretty decent world building, and scene construction that is nearly unrivaled, yet even with all that I just can't seem to reread it. Must have tried a good few times over the past couple of years, yet everytime I do I always seem to end up putting the book away half way through (and it's not just the first one, as I have tried starting with the others). Perhaps the problem is Martins insistance on changing pov's every single chapter. Just when you are getting into one characters story, he swaps to another who, though well written, just doesn't engange me. Plus because of the way he has layed his book out, he has set himself into a mold which requires him to write a whole chapters worth for the character he switches to when only a page or so is needed. I feel the book could have been far better if he had stuck with having one or two main characters, and then sometimes flicking to others to see what they up to. view post

posted 09 Jul 2004, 14:07 by Grantaire, Moderator

I was introduced to ASoIaF through wotmania, and I greatly enjoyed it. The writing is vivid, the characters are realistic and memorable, and the world building is superb. Martin is definately one of my current favorite fantasy authors. view post

posted 09 Jul 2004, 16:07 by The Consult, Candidate

I too cannot seem to be able to re-read these books.... I think it is mainly due to the fact that there is no new info or plot insights to gain by re-reading them. These books a pretty in-your-face....nothing is left to the imagination.... its just told how it is.... view post

posted 09 Jul 2004, 20:07 by Taliesin, Peralogue

I'd have to agree, that this is one series I can't get myself to reread... I think it's because I want to get more pleasure out of a rereading, tease out some more of the nuances and visit with some old friends, as it were. But, Martin's story is just so bleak that I guess I'm just not up to rereading when I already know all of the hardship that is coming.... view post

posted 09 Jul 2004, 20:07 by Kingslayer, Candidate

I have yet to reread the series but will attempt to reread them close to a firm release date for AFFC. As far as the books go, i can honestly say, that The Darkness That Comes Before is the first "Fantasy" book ive picked up since reading ASOIAF, Martin basically killed Fantasy for me for about a year and a half. Everything i read i compared to ASOIAF and it was all found wanting. Now, however, its been long enough that i think i can enjoy fantasy again. :lol: view post

posted 10 Jul 2004, 00:07 by drosdelnoch, Subdidact

To be honest Ive read the first two and saving the next two (book 3 being released in two parts) for when a confirmed date is out. Still I suppose thats the way it goes. Will probably reread but feel that Ive taken all the info available already in and if Im honest if theres nothing new to gain whats the point of reading them again? view post

posted 10 Jul 2004, 01:07 by Loof, Peralogue

I actualy have managed to reread ASOIAF, although it took two tries (first time I got sidetracked before finishing GOT). So yeah they aren't the most reread friendly books out there. But I definetly think they have some things that can be picked up on a reread that you miss the first time through. Take for instance the ever popular theory about Jon's parents, me and a friend figured that one out discussing the books while I was doing my reread before I found it on the net. view post

posted 11 Jul 2004, 18:07 by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

I have reread them once. I found it just as enjoyable because it had been a while since the firtst time, and because they are so complex I had forgotten enough the first time that it was like re-aquainting myself with the characters and world. Hey Loof, what is that theory? I have never heard of it and don't think I've figured it out for myself unless I've forgotten (it has been a while...). view post

posted 11 Jul 2004, 21:07 by Loof, Peralogue

Theory is that Lyanna Stark ran away willingly with Rhaegar and that she died giving birth to Jon. And what she asked Ned to promise her was to keep Jon safe or something like that. There are alot of small hints that indicate this theory, but who knows it might be just one more of them whacky theories obsessed readers think up :wink: view post

posted 12 Jul 2004, 03:07 by LooseCannon, Peralogue

I picked aGoT up from the bookstore back in the day on a whim. The quote on the front "'It's brilliant' - Robert Jordan" practically made the book jump off the shelf, grab my wallet and drag me to the checkout. It's been a brutal wait for each book and to be honest I have really lost interest in the series as it has been so long a wait since 2000. Also, from reading one of the preview chapters for aFfC I realize it is going to be hard keeping track of all the character names as I can't remember all the Xeryo's and Deryo's after this long. I think I have reread the books a couple of times each but I haven't touched them in 2-3 years so it has been a while. view post

posted 12 Jul 2004, 20:07 by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Yeah I am going to reread them this summer/fall. Here's what's lined up: Midnight Tides (just started it) The Iliad (for college, required reading upon arrival) Shadow and Claw (Gene Wolfe) ASOIAF view post

posted 12 Jul 2004, 20:07 by DarkMatter, Peralogue

I really love the book and I can't understand, why I had it in my bookshelf for several years without reading it. I haven't reread it yet but will before next book is released. view post

posted 12 Jul 2004, 20:07 by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Um, what book are you talking about? view post

posted 12 Jul 2004, 20:07 by DarkMatter, Peralogue

I was talking about a game of thrones. I thought that was the topic. view post

posted 12 Jul 2004, 20:07 by Wil, Head Moderator

It is, Sovin can be a little slow sometimes. *Wink* view post

posted 12 Jul 2004, 20:07 by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Shut it. view post

posted 12 Jul 2004, 21:07 by Edge, Peralogue

I'm happy to say that I read AGoT before Martin became a superstar. I love his work, I just wish he would get A Feast for Crows finished. view post

posted 16 Jul 2004, 00:07 by saintjon, Auditor

Although I haven't attempted to re-read the whole series I have found it rewarding to go back over certain parts from time to time, probably the part I've gone back to most are the last few chapters about Arya in A Storm of Swords, although a few times I have gone right back to AGoT to read some parts about Ned (my favourite character ever, I've taken flack for it but I don't care). view post

posted 17 Jul 2004, 14:07 by drosdelnoch, Subdidact

I ve read the first two and been saving the next one (both parts) until its known the release date of FfC's. So at this rate may be waiting another couple of years to read them :( view post

posted 18 Jul 2004, 12:07 by painbird, Candidate

i have read these books and by far they are the best fantasy i have ever read. jordon can only look on in dismay. martin just cuts to the chase, he doesn't bloat the book with meaningless seating charts and other random useless info. don't get me wrong, i love the WoT series but the last book left me with a very sour taste in my mouth and it appears i am still bitter about it. i just hope martin can finish aFoC soon. view post

posted 18 Jul 2004, 16:07 by Damaen, Candidate

I think the theory was missed a litte. Lyana (sp) never ran away with rhaegar, but was held by him for a time and she was raped. Its in one of the books, i cant remember which. But your right: Jon probably is the bastard son of her and the prince and is the last targayen. Excuse my misspelling of ant GRRM names. I can re-read these, i think. I got so hopelesly addicted to the series i read them in about 2 days a book. its like Warrior prophet: i ha dth ebook finished about 27 hours or something after i purchased it. i HAD TO KNOW. sadly, the names of people in the battle who faught/died passed like a blur and im finding as i slowly read it again that its much better. i still think Scott could have included more backstory to the earles and thanes in the battles, tho. Sort of random names. digressions aside: AGOT amazing. WP better the second time, hopefully GRMM is as well view post

posted 19 Jul 2004, 01:07 by saintjon, Auditor

Actually, no one has come directly out and said that Rhaegar raped Lyanna. Robert would get all worked up from time to time and say he couldn't forgive him for what he did, but Robert was the guy on the other end of things, and he also could've been referring to the fact that her dying in childbed giving birth to his son could definitely be construed as Rhaegar's fault. I'm not sure if you've Clash of Kings or Storm of Swords yet but there are scenes in those books that further support "The Theory" view post

posted 19 Jul 2004, 02:07 by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Yeah, I don't think anything actually rules out lyanna and rhaegar. Personally, I love the theory, and I'll keep it in mind when I reread. view post

posted 20 Jul 2004, 19:07 by drosdelnoch, Subdidact

To be honest I thought the same when I read the books, although have to say that I think that it works better without it actually being said but hinted at. view post

posted 20 Jul 2004, 20:07 by Grantaire, Moderator

Yes, subtlety is preferable in a book. view post

posted 20 Jul 2004, 21:07 by Taliesin, Peralogue

Subtlety, indeed... there's nothing so rewarding as being made to think about what you're reading. view post

posted 21 Jul 2004, 00:07 by saintjon, Auditor

I meant that no one had come right out and said that Rhaegar raped Lyanna AS OPPOSED to her falling in love with him and going along with it. view post

posted 21 Jul 2004, 22:07 by Damaen, Candidate

Yea I'm actually not sure now. [quote:2pwmaxp9]Jon Snow's Mother I believe Jon Snow is not the son of Eddard Stark. I believe he is Eddard's nephew, the son of Lyanna. Ned never mentions her mother and he's always remembering a promise he made her. It's mostly assumed to be to bury her at Winterfell, but I don't think it ever specifically says so. On page 115 of Game of Thrones Ned is thinking that troubled sleep is no stranger to him. "He had lived his lies for fourteen years, yet they still haunted him at night." Now in this instance he had been talking about Lannisters, but the word lies seems to imply more than that. Jon is 14. I don't think that its a coincidence. More on Jon's Mother OK, I have a sneaking suspicion Jon is Lyanna's son, not Ned's. In fact, I'm almost certain. First, we have Ned's famous honour. Secondly, we have Ned going on about promises (note the plural - he didn't just promise to bury her in Winterfell) he made Lyanna when she was dying. He thinks about the price he has paid to keep those promises. Could the price be the hatred of Catelyn for Jon, and the widespread "knowledge" of the fact that his honour is not so strong as it seems, when in fact it is? Lyanna in her "bed of blood". She shouldn't be bleeding that badly if she died of a fever, as most people seem to think. Ned's refusal to name Jon's mother. The fact that Lyanna was raped by Rhaegar Targaryen. Aha, but was she? Nobody says anything about Lyanna loving Robert Baratheon. And Rhaegar died saying the name of the woman he loved. We haven't been told so far what her name was. Could have been Elia, but who knows? And the timeline is right. Rhaegar and Lyanna died sixteen years ago or thereabouts. Jon is sixteen or so, right? And then there's what Daenerys saw in Qarth, when she was in the palace of the Undead, or whatever they call themselves. She saw blue roses. That's Lyanna. Am I the only one who thinks Jon and Daenerys are going to end up together? Two Targaryens and all that....yes, I know he's part of the Night's Watch, but seeing what he is now (trying not to ruin it for others) could he not change things a bit? I found another piece of evidence that says Rhaegar loved Lyanna, not Elia. It's in a Storm of Swords, but I can't remember the page number. Our editions are different anyway. Somebody tells somebody else that Rhaegar crowned Lyanna Queen of Love and Beauty at the tourney in Harrenhal where Jaime Lannister got his white cloak. I mean, his own wife was there as well. That has to mean something. [/quote:2pwmaxp9] found here in conclusion: questionable facts > me view post

posted 24 Jul 2004, 19:07 by drosdelnoch, Subdidact

Will probably pick up the two parts of book 3 shortly. view post

posted 05 Aug 2004, 00:08 by steve, Peralogue

an incredible series, all the unexpected twists really make the books for me. view post

Reread posted 10 Oct 2005, 17:10 by Rhaegars Son, Commoner

To those who have said these books offer little rereadability, I would highly reccommend another reading. Sure, there are those huge events that will remain the same, but the levels on intrigue in these books are amazing. For instance, the significance of my board name? The books are great the first time through, but a careful follow-up reading is far more rewarding. view post

posted 10 Oct 2005, 20:10 by Randal, Auditor

I wholeheartedly agree. I know of no series that I've reread more often and with more pleasure. I like Ned's story arc, for example, far more knowing the tragic end approaching. I think it's even safe to say that whilst I liked the series a lot on my first read, I only came to truly love it once I re-read it and started to pay real attention to all the manifold intricacies of plot and character. view post

posted 18 Jan 2006, 03:01 by OsRavan, Commoner

I'm a huge huge martin fan. Read the series well over 50 times. And I have to say theres *tons* to be picked up on rereads if you keep your eyes open. In fact, imo its one of the subtlest books out there. Some possible spoilers here if oy uahvnt read the series as i point out some good reread things... Rhaegar and lyanna first off as someone mentioned if a big theory. ie R + L = J. And i think the evidence actually points pretty strongly to lyanna not being raped by rhaegar but them eloping together. Specialy in asos you get lots of hints of this. Read the Reeds story of the tournament in Harrenhall as an example. its a metaphor that tells us alot. Read the variouse ocmments on rhaegards honor etc. hes jsut not the raping sort of character. Indeed. NEd often thinks quite fondly of Rhaegar. Something highly unlikely to occur if Rhaegar had raped his beloved sister. Not to mention you have to ask why was lyanna dying on a bed of blood if not due to childbirth. Its nto the after effects of a rape.. shes been with rhaegar for months by this point. And Rhaegars been dead for a good while too. So whats killing her? Not to mention why are there 3 of the kings gaurd with her? As the TOJ exchange reveals, the trident could have had a very differnt end if those 3 had been at Rhaegars back. Why werent they? The explanation you pick up.. from asos and feast... is that rhaegar was convinced his son.. jon.. was the prince who was promised. We know (feast spoilers here) that at first Rhaegar thought of himself as the prince who was promised... ie he comes to that conclusion while reading in his fathers library. And the discovery of the prophecies convicnes him he must be the PWWP. LAter however, we see how he changes his mind (the dragon must have three heads) and decides it must be one of his *sons* who will be the PWWP. Maester Aemon now thinks its dany.. due to a msitranslation (ie they translated it as masucline which it wasnt necccecerly) However, seeing as he thinks rhaegars onyl son is dead (and hence cant be the pwwp) there is still some doubt as to who is the real PWWP. However... before we get off track... I atleast would argue that while no one has out and out said jon is the son of rhaegar and it wasnt rape.. its pretty darn clear if you look for the subtle hints. Other things to pick up on rereads you mgiht not have grasped at first glance. Loras and Renly being lovers. You can raise the quesiton of just who *is* the PWWP. Stannis? Jon? Dany? all sorts of subtle hints. looks at the prophecys. Theres tons of them. Wh a re the three heads of the dragon? I say Tyrion, Jon, Dany. You know why? Her Three betrayles? did you pick up on who white bear was right away? One interesting thing i picked up. The horn of winter is not the one mance thinks he has, but the one sam has. Anotheri nterestign thing to pick up, is ColdHands Benjen stark? (dont buy that myself) Was Syrio really a faceless man.. and the same person as jaquen (I say yes) Was it a faceless man who killed Balon Greyjoy? (again i say yes) for those of you who have read feast.... some big spoilers here Did you pick up who the sphinx really is? Hint. He is not a he. Did you pick up that 'the alchemist' is really a faceless man? Did you pick up that the hound is still alive? That the mountain has been turned into a franken monster? That Davos is really alive? The list really goes on and on. Before feast came out, the GRRM board was able to predict with alot of accuracy the events of the next book for isntance. Taht arya would be trained in the free cities. That sansa would be tutored by LF. so on. btw did you all pick up on the red wedding hints in book 2? Did you get all the dany prophecys in the house of the undying? Do you get the signifigance of Sansa's wolf being dead? All the refernces to aryas wolf? Do you know which characrer in the book is descended form Duncan the tall? Honesty, I can go on and on. And we havnt even touched on the subtler character growths, only on hidden plot points. theres just as much character detail to be picked up. Does stannis know he kileld his brother? The signifigance of stannis sword not having heat. Of Craster sacraficing his babies to become others. Stannis hismelf is a complex character. Look at his treatment of Proud Wing. Theres tons to be gained from character study in rereads. Theres shocking depths to alot of these characters. Even the ones that seem shallow.. such as the Blackfish and Loras.. you gain new isnight to in rereads. And lets not even touch Cat and LF and Cercie and Jaime lol. Or Tywin. The fact that he used ot sneak out of the castle of the hand to visit whores. On and on and on. I think you get the idea. I dont get people who say theres nothing to be gotten in rereads. I coudl reread these books till the end of time, and still pick up hitertoo unnoticed character depths. Like I said, ive reread them mroe then 50 times, and i still feel i learn new angles and depths to the characters with each reread. view post

posted 24 Jan 2006, 14:01 by xhaldur, Candidate

Well following OsRavan's post dont think me going into detail about the series is necessary heh... I love this series and its in my top 5 of all time. Although now I'm waiting on pt. 2 of A Feast for Crows. I think it sucks he had to split the book in 2 because it got so big...I for one, would sit down and read a 1.5k page book of his in a heartbeat. Hopefully it wont be too long till the next book is out. view post


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