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TTT, that which comes after and golgotterath? posted 02 Apr 2007, 05:04 by Buckethead, Peralogue

I just finished rereading the series and i am left with a few thoughts both of the past and future. I know i posted this recently under author Q & A but i think it relates to what i am about to bring up as well. this is an excerpt from the warrior prophet. Kellhus is in the probability trance when the story narrates from his point of view... [quote:zmlre54e]Possible worlds blew through him, fanning and branching into a canopy of glimpses... Nameless Schoolmen climbing a steep, gravelly beach. A nipple pinched between fingers. A grasping climax. A severed head thrust against the burning sun. Apparitions marching out of morning mist. A dead wife. Kellhus exhaled, then breathed deep the bittersweet pinch of cedar, earth, and war. There was revelation.[/quote:zmlre54e] pg. 242 TWP The second reading of this was far more interesting than the first for obvious reasons. i took the revelation to be his decision of this path. any conjecture or speculation on these fortellings are more than welcome. i took the apparitions marching out of morning mist to be the starving inrithi marching out of caraskand. i thought the schoolmen climbing the gravelly beach may be a scene not described in the book (the mandate schoolmen coming to shimeh?). and of course i understand the dead wife to be serwe leading me to believe that kellhus' near death in the circumfixion was at least somewhat forseen. i am kind of getting off topic. this time by the end of the thousand fold thought, i came to a more firm conclusion of what i believe the thousandfold thought is. i think that it is something very similar to the probability trance only that it is more able and suited to account for what the dunyain describe as the "outside world", which is quite obviously far far more complex. in this trance one can perhaps begin to gain an understanding of not only cause and effect but some of the whys and hows of the past, the gods, the spiritual, the sorcerous and the physical workings of the world. it would still be based on the information one intakes which would explain why moenghus and kellhus come to different conclusions (different tracks). i also speculate that the thousandfold thought is able to not only able to read the past through men, but also through the world at large giving kellhus a far better understanding of the history of cultures, the three seas and his father's path by the end of TTT than he had at any point during the first two books. anyways, there was a very similar piece of writing in TTT to that i just quoted from the warrior prophet. [quote:zmlre54e]For the Dunyain, it was axiomatic: what was compliant had to be isolated from what was inruly and intractable. Kellhus had seen it many times, wandering the possibilities of the Thousandfold Thought: The Warrior-Prophet's assasination. The rise of Anisurimbor Moenghus to take his place. The apocalyptic conspiracies. The counterfiet war against Golgotterath. The accumulation of premeditated disasters. The sacrifice of whole nations to the gluttony of the Sranc. The Three Seas crashing into char and ruin. The Gods baying like wolves at a silent gate.[/quote:zmlre54e] pg. 375 TTT i know that some of these quite obviously are purely future possibilities that will not come to pass, eg: Anisurimbor moenghus taking his place (which is why i think kellhus kills him). but of course after reading the synopsis for the great ordeal the counterfiet war against golotterath stood out. what do you think? is kellhus already planning to control another holy war for his own purposes twenty years before it marches? again, speculation or clarification of my ideas are more than welcome.... obviously. view post

posted 02 May 2007, 03:05 by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Good post. I've also wondered about exactly what the "Thousandfold Thought" is. From that last section you quoted, it seems Kellhus has come to the startling conclusion that the Dunyain are in fact no different from the Consult. So it makes sense to say that he who has grasped the Thousandfold Thought is someone who has transcended the Dunyain, which is to say the Logos, which is nothing less than the whole world. What else is there? The Outside, of course. view post

posted 02 May 2007, 03:05 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

[quote="Gravity Gun":2j5a5pa6]Good post. I've also wondered about exactly what the "Thousandfold Thought" is........[/quote:2j5a5pa6] Someone on this board posted a very simple and nice explanationof what the TfT is, however the Thousandfold Thought is explained somewhat during the conversation between Moe and Kellhus. view post

posted 19 May 2007, 07:05 by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

Bakker is being intentionally vague on what the TTT is, so I doubt if anyone's definition is precisely correct. However, we do know that Kellus's grasp of the TTT gives him the confidence he needs to defeat his father. We do know that he somehow grasps it after hanging in the circumfix. And in all likelyhood it's some extension of the Probability Trance. Moengus came close to grasping it but came up short. Anyway, I suspect in the next series Bakker will end his damnable vagueness and give us a more concrete definition. :) view post

posted 21 May 2007, 19:05 by Harrol, Moderator

We know in part that it is the ability to control the masses both in conviction and perception. view post

posted 28 May 2007, 00:05 by Buckethead, Peralogue

i personally don't think that moenghus came up short in using the thousandfold thought, as i said before i think it is a matter of the information one intakes and how it is sifted, filtered, calculated etc. i think it is clear that kellhus in his short period of time experienced a more broad range of the three sea's culture, religion and theory thus at least making him able to confuse his father. i don't think it ever discusses the fact that moenghus cannot fully grasp the thousandfold thought, only that he hadn't calculated certain information that kellhus had (including religious, magical and visual information). if he came up short in anything, it was his ability to gather the information not his ability to organize it. view post


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