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Achamian posted 02 Apr 2007, 23:04 by Moigle90, Commoner

In twenty years Achamians going to be pretty old, at least sixty (I always thought of him being around 40) . And in those days (by those days i mean the middle ages which is pretty much where the threeseas are technology-wise.) thats pretty old. Plus it calls his goal of seeking the Dunyain, a "mad" quest. So i kindof picture him as this crazy old man. Its sorta sad though because he was my favorite character and basically was screwed (can i say that?) over in Prince of Nothing. I really want him to get his revenge... or something. He deserves it. view post


Re: Achamian posted 03 Apr 2007, 01:04 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

[quote="Moigle90":7p5yz49p]In twenty years Achamians going to be pretty old, at least sixty (I always thought of him being around 40) . And in those days (by those days i mean the middle ages which is pretty much where the threeseas are technology-wise.) thats pretty old. Plus it calls his goal of seeking the Dunyain, a "mad" quest. So i kindof picture him as this crazy old man. Its sorta sad though because he was my favorite character and basically was screwed (can i say that?) over in Prince of Nothing. I really want him to get his revenge... or something. He deserves it.[/quote:7p5yz49p] Yes you can say screwed, as for Akka I think hes not going to be a crazy old man, but more of a cold determined old man, as for his age I think he'll manage even in his 60s. And I think hes going to get exactly what he wants or something very close to it. view post


Re: Achamian posted 03 Apr 2007, 05:04 by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

[quote="Moigle90":19q7jpkb]In twenty years Achamians going to be pretty old, at least sixty (I always thought of him being around 40) . And in those days (by those days i mean the middle ages which is pretty much where the threeseas are technology-wise.) thats pretty old. Plus it calls his goal of seeking the Dunyain, a "mad" quest. So i kindof picture him as this crazy old man. Its sorta sad though because he was my favorite character and basically was screwed (can i say that?) over in Prince of Nothing. I really want him to get his revenge... or something. He deserves it.[/quote:19q7jpkb] Agree with Warrior - Akka won't be crazy...or at least not that crazy. Cnaiur was driven mad, but I don't think that will happen to Akka. I think he'll be deadly sane. Everyone else will be under Kellus's spell. And as far as revenge...hmmm...not sure how I feel about that quite yet. I'm glad he's no longer under Kellus's influence. Beforehand, Conphas was the only intelligent character who couldn't be seduced by Kellus. He was a very good character and I was sad to see him kick the bucket. I think a non-mad Akka who sees Kellus for what he truly is will provide an interesting perspective. view post


posted 03 Apr 2007, 05:04 by Trutu Angotma, Peralogue

i think akka has realized khellus for what he is at the end of the last book and that his use of this knowledge will suprise us all. and he was 32 throughout the books, so only in his fiftys view post


posted 03 Apr 2007, 06:04 by Phil, Candidate

I thought Kellhus was closer to 32 than Achamian. Achamian was a sorceror of rank when Proyas was a boy (and old enough to become tutor to him), there's no way he was only 32. view post


posted 03 Apr 2007, 12:04 by Harrol, Moderator

I believe that Akka is described as a sorcerer in his mid-forties. That would put him in his mid-sixties in the Great Ordeal. Many a men have lived to great ages when they were driven by a great purpose. view post


posted 03 Apr 2007, 16:04 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

[quote:3gkd6ycd]Drusas Achamian (Droo-sass Ah-kay-me-on), a 47 year-old Mandate sorcerer[/quote:3gkd6ycd] This is from the official prince of nothing website and I am assuming they mean at the start of PoN so he should be a bit older. view post


posted 04 Apr 2007, 16:04 by zarathustra, Peralogue

I'm wondering where Achamians mad quest will take him. At some point Zeum needs to be tied in to the story so perhaps he will end up there. Though I am unclear how that area could have anything to do with origins of the Dunyain. There is the abandned Noman mansion (sorry can't remeber the name) which needs to be tied in as well in some way (Scott says he has something feundish planned for it) so perhaps Achamian will go skulking around there and find something he shouldn't. view post


posted 04 Apr 2007, 17:04 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

[quote="zarathustra":to85zrg5]I'm wondering where Achamians mad quest will take him. At some point Zeum needs to be tied in to the story so perhaps he will end up there. Though I am unclear how that area could have anything to do with origins of the Dunyain. There is the abandned Noman mansion (sorry can't remeber the name) which needs to be tied in as well in some way (Scott says he has something feundish planned for it) so perhaps Achamian will go skulking around there and find something he shouldn't.[/quote:to85zrg5] Im thinking we will see Akka either ending up in Atrithau, or in Scylvendi land, namely Utemot land, I seem to recall a certain mention of one of Cnauir's daughters in the Glossary of TfT, so I believe she will tie into the story in some way. However either way I believe Akka will eventually go there seeing as its a better place than any to start. view post


posted 04 Apr 2007, 17:04 by Buckethead, Peralogue

i fail to see how achamian could end up in zeum considering he full well knows that the dunyain come from somewhere north of the steppe. i figure he'll probably be up in atrithau or around there anyways. it would also make sense seeing as atrithau is well separated from the rest of the three seas and the empire... view post


posted 04 Apr 2007, 17:04 by Buckethead, Peralogue

ignore the last one, warrior-poet beat me to it... view post


posted 04 Apr 2007, 18:04 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

[quote="Buckethead":lb06z7vd]ignore the last one, warrior-poet beat me to it...[/quote:lb06z7vd] I tend to do that, occasionally. :) view post


posted 04 Apr 2007, 23:04 by Anthorn, Candidate

What about Lewis the trapper, the one left behind by Kellus in the prologue of the Darkness that comes before? I think Akka may find him.... view post


posted 04 Apr 2007, 23:04 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

I think Leweth is dead. view post


posted 04 Apr 2007, 23:04 by anor277, Didact

[quote="Anthorn":3gw6jek8]What about Lewis the trapper, the one left behind by Kellus in the prologue of the Darkness that comes before? I think Akka may find him....[/quote:3gw6jek8] Achamian (and Lewus) would be lucky to find the trapper. When Kellhus deserted him, Lewus' prospects for survival looked very, very poor. Besides even if Lewus was still alive, what could Achamian learn from him (maybe the general direction of Ishual?)? Lewus was the first of a long line of Kellhus' possessions. view post


posted 05 Apr 2007, 02:04 by Moigle90, Commoner

and even if he does find ishual, what then? What would the dunyain do with him? probably kill him? Maybe he tells them how he knows kellhus or warns them of the apocalypse. But even still, i think they'd kill him on the spot. If they would commit suicide just for recieving dreams from moenghus because he was tainted by the outside world. What would they do with a real stranger? view post


posted 05 Apr 2007, 03:04 by anor277, Didact

[quote="Moigle90":vccgsqaw]and even if he does find ishual, what then? What would the dunyain do with him? probably kill him? Maybe he tells them how he knows kellhus or warns them of the apocalypse. But even still, i think they'd kill him on the spot. If they would commit suicide just for recieving dreams from moenghus because he was tainted by the outside world. What would they do with a real stranger?[/quote:vccgsqaw] While Achamian will be a geezer if he searches for Ishual (and probably Atrithau will be first destination as someone else mentioned) he will hardly be defenceless. He is a seasoned sorceror of rank from the most formidable school in the Three Seas. Against Dunyain who have no Chorae and (arguably) no knowledge of sorcery he would be invincible. view post


posted 05 Apr 2007, 04:04 by Incu-Pacifico, Peralogue

[quote="Moigle90":1ghmwy92]and even if he does find ishual, what then? What would the dunyain do with him? probably kill him? Maybe he tells them how he knows kellhus or warns them of the apocalypse. But even still, i think they'd kill him on the spot. If they would commit suicide just for recieving dreams from moenghus because he was tainted by the outside world. What would they do with a real stranger?[/quote:1ghmwy92] I doubt if the Dunyain could just kill Akka at this point. In addition to their intellect and their ability to seduce people, the Dunyain's greatest power lies in people's ignorance of them. People have no idea what the Dunyain's philosophy is and no idea how they operate. In fact, they've never seen or heard of anything like the Dunyain...at least they don't think they have. There's probably some scroll somewhere with a paragraph or two discussing a fringe cult who call themselves Dunyain. Anyway, once people find out the truth of the Dunyain, they either go mad trying to resist (Cnaiur) or become something else (Akka). After 20 years of studying them and his experiences with Kellus, I doubt Akka could be "just killed" by even the Dunyain. view post


posted 05 Apr 2007, 20:04 by GreyMantle, Commoner

I don't know if anyone here has read RA Salvatore's Exile, but I imagine any meeting between Akka and the Dunyain would be similar to when the undead Zak enters the illithid colony. (For those who don't who haven't read, he's completely unaffected and goes on to pretty much slaughter the entire city.) view post


posted 07 Apr 2007, 07:04 by avatar_of_existence, Peralogue

Achamian follows the path of all great men who know the truth before those around them, somwhere in one of the books Bakker says 'Achamian knew what it meant to be an instrument of the truth: to suffer.' view post


posted 08 Apr 2007, 12:04 by Anthorn, Candidate

I believe Akka has come full circle. At the start of the Prince Of Nothing he was alone, feeling increasingly alienated from his Mandate peers, and the society that hates them, and also the other sorcerers that deem them crazy... Only Esmenet is his beakon the sign he is not alone. But at the end of the series, he has been betrayed by both Kellus and Esmi. He has found out that Kellus has been using him, and that perhaps npw has doubts about the Prophecy, about this Anasurimbor. At the end of the Thousandfold thought, in despair and anger he renounces every thing that once ment something to him, he throws away his shackles. And when in the first book he percieved himself alone, now, he truely is alone.... One man who knows the truth, knows the Duntain. I believe he will be a broken man, obsessed by his betrayal and his one purpose, the prevention of The Apocalypse. Maybe he can no longer trust Kellus to be the Harbringer and Saviour. Perhaps he searches for the Dunyain to find out more about Kellhus and their ways. Perhaps he seeks a way to fight him, or to find a shred of hope. view post


posted 09 Apr 2007, 15:04 by budda69, Commoner

Achamian is 47 when the series starts, but the series ends, so he'd be 49. 20 years later, he'd be almost 70. He may teach someone else the Gnosis, then have them find Kellhus maybe? view post


posted 13 Apr 2007, 21:04 by emmills, Commoner

I would assume that Akka survives the books with much of his sanity intact. The evidence is in the excerpts of the "First" holy war. Meaning that he was also around for a second holy war. The passages in TTT were a little more bitter than the earlier ones, but they kept the vitriol to a minimum. view post


posted 14 Apr 2007, 19:04 by zarathustra, Peralogue

Yes I agree with you emmills I think Achamian will survive the books. I think there is a bit of the authors character in him and he is there to bear witness to the events. As a voice of sanity or everyman; there is probably a better term for it but I'm no expert on literary critisism. view post


posted 15 Apr 2007, 04:04 by Moigle90, Commoner

hes the protagonist 8) view post


posted 15 Apr 2007, 05:04 by Gravity Gun, Candidate

Yes I agree he'll live. Not only live, but well enough to have gotten a book deal (Compendium of the First Holy War). :wink: It seems unlikely that he will be able to physically get to Ishual. Judging by the narrative at the beginning of Darkness, it's inconceivable that anybody other than a Dunyain could have survived the journey through the wilderness between Atrithau and Ishual. It took Kellhus, who's near the prime of his life and had supreme physical fitness, everything he had -- including very good luck -- just to survive and get through. Akka, being by then probably old enough to cash in his S401(K) (sorcerer's retirement plan), will not have much of a chance to fend off the cold, hunger, Sranc hordes, and the occasional Nonmen lunatic. Being something of a scholar, probably he'll find some cache of old books or artifacts far away from Ishual, and manage to uncover the origin of the Dunyain cult that way. view post


posted 21 Apr 2007, 05:04 by poeg, Commoner

I think we have a man who has lost much of what he thought was his identity and now have a clear path to more of Seswatha coming through. In his earlier use of the Gnosis we have seen the magic of the other schools a poor second cousin at best. So we have either a school who could easily dominate all others fielding its students to war but chooses not to or a student who is far more his teacher than any could ever have thought possible or probable. Its one thing to have schooled as mage, another to have been a battle mage having experienced actual combat but something altogether different to have been a true power in the most horrible of campaigns seen in an age. view post


posted 24 Apr 2007, 08:04 by lord fowl, Commoner

Hi there first post and all - incredible series! I bet that when Akka stumbles off into the north he meets a guy named Mekeritrig and they have a contest of who can make the most trees explode. After realizing that they are both awesome, and good at killing trees, they become friends and enslave a sranc swarm or two (Akka under the guise of learning about the Consult and Mekeritrig under the guise of learning about the Dunyain.) The two adventurers set off in search of adventure and Ishual and shit. And when they get to Ishual, the Dunyain make Mekeritrig good again through hypnosis or conversation or something. After Mek puts a spell of friendship on the Dunyain, he and Akka teach them some sorcery. Then Akka and Mek lead a squad of Gnostic Dunyain Badasses to confront Kellhus and the Great Ordeal. Then a Probability Orgy occurs and the unexpected happens!?!?? view post


posted 24 Apr 2007, 13:04 by Harrol, Moderator

lord fowl I would agree with you if this was a Forgotten Realms series or if it was written by some cheap author but that is not the case. Where as some of what you say may work that way most will not. I mean an orgy no way. view post


posted 24 Apr 2007, 17:04 by Phil, Candidate

Just trying to work out which of the two of you was being more ironic. view post


posted 24 Apr 2007, 18:04 by Harrol, Moderator

I am abased by Lord Fowl's power of irony and will never try to compete with him again. view post


posted 25 Apr 2007, 10:04 by lord fowl, Commoner

Hey sorry about the ridiculousness of that post i was drinkin unwatered wine (although I think Akka and Mek's Excellent Adventure would be awesome :)). I picked up this series because of Erikson's recommendation and was completely blown away and read all three books in the past month. I actually think it would be a very cool storyline if Achamian met Mek while he was just being insane in the North. If Mek happened to fall on the good side of his insanity and met Akka wandering around in the Ancient North some cool stuff could happen, especially with all the awful memories Achamien has of Dagliash. Apologies if this has already been proposed, I haven't read the entire board. view post


posted 26 Apr 2007, 16:04 by Harrol, Moderator

Too late Lord Fowl master of irony you are forever branded. :twisted: view post


posted 27 Apr 2007, 22:04 by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

[quote:2cnp1r83]Too late Lord Fowl master of irony you are forever branded :D [/quote:2cnp1r83] Ha, maybe we should give him that title. Anyway back on topic, Akka, as I stated previously, will likely be a fiercely determined old man bent on revenge and the truth behind the entire matter, in the end however I think he will be the key in stopping the No-God. view post


posted 12 Jun 2007, 03:06 by kaboos, Commoner

Hey all my first post :D I'm basically thinking that because akka renounced hi involvement with the mandate his powers might grow somewhat?(that would be cool) Because at the end of TfT he basically kicks tonnes of ass all by himself. But it seems most likely that he'll wander off into the north and not only find out stuff about he dunyain but also the consult. Either way akka is still the most bad ass sorcerer of all time ....( other than seswatha of course.)...and will most likely do some more killing before he dies. go achamian :twisted: view post


posted 12 Jun 2007, 04:06 by anor277, Didact

[quote="kaboos":19t5f31d]Hey all my first post :D I'm basically thinking that because akka renounced hi involvement with the mandate his powers might grow somewhat?(that would be cool) Because at the end of TfT he basically kicks tonnes of ass all by himself. But it seems most likely that he'll wander off into the north and not only find out stuff about he dunyain but also the consult. Either way akka is still the most bad ass sorcerer of all time ....( other than seswatha of course.)...and will most likely do some more killing before he dies. go achamian :twisted:[/quote:19t5f31d] Unfortunately, there is not too much evidence regarding Achamian's ability as a sorceror. He was a sorceror of rank (whatever that means) of the Mandate, which makes him formidable. He was also used by that School as a field agent (the Scarlet Spires top dog, whose name I forget, at one stage ruefully makes this point, but is still unwilling to test his ability solely on the superiority of the Gnosis). The quorum especially, there must be other members of the Mandate who are quite superior to Achamian in the practice of sorcery. view post


posted 12 Jun 2007, 08:06 by Curethan, Didact

He's a fully fledged battle-mage. Not being part of the quorum is undoubtedly due to his nature rather than abilities. Ask the scarlet spires or the demon he whuped if u don't believe me. view post


posted 12 Jun 2007, 16:06 by Cohen, Peralogue

interesting insights and ideas on this thread, but the whole idea of the next series starting 20 years later troubles me and brings me to question. 1. How old was Seswatha when the first Apocalypse happened, I was under the impression that history would repeat itself in the second, Celmomas=Khellus Seswatha=Achamian. 2. With events unfolding so quickly in the first three novels, why would it take another 20 years for anything of importance to happen? why would we rejoin the story with Akka being an old bitter ex mandate? Surely it does not take 20 years for him to learn or discover the truth behind Khellus. 3. With the consult resurfacing, will the mandate not be more active in pursuing open war or at the least trying to track down the origins of the skin spies, and more? 4.After the battle of Kiyuth, the plainsmen are scattered and defeated, and the heathen Kian also crushed, and if Khellus truly believes in the consult and the Apocalypse prophesies, is 20 years an feesible timeline to wait before warring in the north? why not strike when a major faction of the last apocalypse has been rendered usless prevoiusly by Conphas? This could be just a result of my whorish mind and eyes craving more words from Bakker, I don't want to miss anything Akka is thinking or doing for the next 20 years! view post


posted 13 Jun 2007, 00:06 by kaboos, Commoner

ya the whole thing about Achamian not being on the quorum has nothing to do with his inability to wield the gnosis in battle it's all bout his views on the consult and such. And Regarding the whole thing with the plainsmen being scattered and why it takes kellhus so long o get on with going to destroy the consult and golgoterath (yes i know i mangled the spelling of that) is most likely because he needs time to build an army.(well thats my idea on the subject.) view post


posted 13 Jun 2007, 07:06 by Curethan, Didact

Yeh, taking an army that far north is a lot further than going to shimeh. And a lot of the men of fighting age were kinda dead by the end of TTT. Also think about how the whole society of the 3 seas would be changed by Kellhus' assencion to power. Thats a LOT of re-organizing. There would be resistance, reluctance to change etc. To weld together a functiong empire would take at least 20 years. Then you also have to prepare for war - and this includes equiping as many sorcerers as possible with the gnosis - so I would imagine the Mandate will be busy with that. (Yeh, Akka mentions that it was always Seswatha's plan to share the gnosis after the Celomoman prophecy was fulfilled in WP about a 3rd of the way in) - 20 years is fast imo. The 2nd Apocolypse mirroring the first? ugh - I think/hope not. The Scylvendi might be scattered and broken (note they are still raiding Nansur directly after the battle of Kiyuth) but the numbers of Sranc in the north is even greater than in the time of the 1st Apoxylisp. view post


posted 14 Jun 2007, 04:06 by Gravity Gun, Candidate

I mentioned this in another thread -- but really the best way is to go by sea, which means allying with Zuem (sp?). If you look at the map, the land route is just far too long. From the Three Seas to Golgotterath, the supply line will be simply unmanagable. And a supply line there must be, since the north is a wilderness so the army can't live off the land. If he intends to go by land, 40 years of preparation will still not be enough. view post


posted 19 Jun 2007, 20:06 by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

[quote="Gravity Gun":2dx3ylfp]I mentioned this in another thread -- but really the best way is to go by sea, which means allying with Zuem (sp?). If you look at the map, the land route is just far too long. From the Three Seas to Golgotterath, the supply line will be simply unmanagable. And a supply line there must be, since the north is a wilderness so the army can't live off the land. If he intends to go by land, 40 years of preparation will still not be enough.[/quote:2dx3ylfp] Very true! On the matter of the book starting 20 years from now. Does that actually mean that nothings happend in 20 years or that that's simply where we will pick-up. Remember that things like flash-backs, conversational recollections and rumors can be used to tell the story of the last twenty years. For instance, First Gossiper: Hey, did you hear about the Emperors old vizier? Second Gossiper: No, what happened to that guy? First Gossiper: I heard he was seen passing from Kiyuth into Scylvendi lands two months ago. Second Gossiper: No way! He's so dead. etc. :P Akka may simply recall his journey into the ancient north on his way to Ishterebinth. Where does it say that he's on his way to see the Dunayin? view post


posted 20 Jun 2007, 13:06 by Hellscythe, Auditor

Might Kellhus try and kill the other Dunyain? view post


posted 21 Jun 2007, 23:06 by anor277, Didact

[quote="Hellscythe":3b84r3sr]Might Kellhus try and kill the other Dunyain?[/quote:3b84r3sr] He might, that is if the other Dunyain are still around, and have not been found and turned off by the Consult, who have been actively looking for them. It would also not be too surprising if (after 20 years) the Dunyain is actually in league with the Consult, and are directing Consult breeding programmes, foreign policy, research into sorcery and the Tekne etc - then again maybe that would make the Consult too formidable. view post


posted 27 Jun 2007, 20:06 by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

Which would be perfect considering that the Three Seas has Kellhus. Yes! I support this idea. Let the Consult find and merge forces with the Dunyain. Then we'll get a holy war worth the title, The Second Apocolypse. :twisted: view post


posted 27 Jun 2007, 22:06 by kaboos, Commoner

i like it... :twisted: view post


Re: Achamian posted 05 Aug 2007, 20:08 by seekerjd, Commoner

Hey all, new to the boards and not sure if anyone has covered this (haven't seen it at a glance) but has anyone noted the development in Achamian that you have by the end of the third book? Namely, after everything he's gone through he seems to have acquired (perhaps through Kellhus' purposeful orchestration) a viewpoint somewhat similar to the Dunyain. He's repudiaded pretty much everything by the end, no faith in institutions, in people, and in "tools to other ends" (concepts like love, duty, etc.). All that's left is an objectivity similar to that conditioned into the Dunyain, though it's been a bit since I read the three books and I'm not entirely sure the degree to which he grasps the other concepts really necessary for the view (i.e. what seem to be causality, open dynamic systems ala chaos theory, equifinality, etc.). Just an idea. view post


Re: Achamian posted 01 Nov 2007, 14:11 by Sea_Cucumber, Candidate

[quote="seekerjd":2d65k2f4]Hey all, new to the boards and not sure if anyone has covered this (haven't seen it at a glance) but has anyone noted the development in Achamian that you have by the end of the third book? Namely, after everything he's gone through he seems to have acquired (perhaps through Kellhus' purposeful orchestration) a viewpoint somewhat similar to the Dunyain. He's repudiaded pretty much everything by the end, no faith in institutions, in people, and in "tools to other ends" (concepts like love, duty, etc.). All that's left is an objectivity similar to that conditioned into the Dunyain, though it's been a bit since I read the three books and I'm not entirely sure the degree to which he grasps the other concepts really necessary for the view (i.e. what seem to be causality, open dynamic systems ala chaos theory, equifinality, etc.). Just an idea.[/quote:2d65k2f4] I think, for the most part, these characteristics are presumed to be weaknesses when it comes to confronting, aggressively, any enemy. Love can be a strength in times of peace, but in a war anyone you love can be hurt to hurt you. Interdependence, really, is what Bakker seems to be talking about. I think Achamian is now completely Independant now, has cut himself off from his love for Esmi. He has become Seswatha, as was Seswatha's intent. My question is, is it Achamian's opinion, at the end of tTT, that he is the perfect man, or is it the Author's opinion, which makes a world of difference. Conphas thought he was perfect, and wasn't, dies within a few hundred pages of this revelation. So what is it? view post


posted 12 Dec 2007, 06:12 by The Solipsistic Urge, Commoner

I think Achamian will come to master utilizing second inutterals in his Cants, as only Kellhus has so far. And I think Achamian will gradually begin to approach Kellhus in terms of intellectual study. That may be a goal of Kellhus', to raise a small number of people to the level of the Dunyain in order to better battle the Consult. Kellhus doesn't seem like the type to allow someone with as much power and intimate knowledge as Drusas Achamian to just walk away uncontested, unless it served some long-term plot. view post


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