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Fight! Fight! Fight! posted 20 Jul 2004, 15:07 by saintjon, Auditor

I just wanted to say that the battles, small-scale and large, are pretty exciting and hard-hitting (especially in the case of Cnaiur). The first big battle in The Warrior-Prophet struck a very nice balance between personal immersion into the chaos while still giving a sense of the tactics of the larger battle going on. My question is what experiences or inspiration do you draw on? You mentioned a historical book, Iron Saints and Iron Men I believe, that inspired you in the Holy War aspect, how much of the military aspect did it lend to The Warrior-Prophet? view post

posted 20 Jul 2004, 15:07 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

If you ever get a chance to find it and read it, you'll see instantly, I think, how much it inspired the particular brand of 'historical narrative' I use in the books. For whatever reason, Lamb stamped my imagination, to the point where he's become the yardstick I use to judge other writer's battle scenes. There's more than a few people who seem to have difficulty with it though. Other than that, the most important book, hands down, would be a little gem called [i:3abf7fax]Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army[/i:3abf7fax] by Donald Engels. Grognard. Definitely grognard. view post

posted 20 Jul 2004, 15:07 by saintjon, Auditor

I gotta say also that Kellhus' battle with the Sranc in the The Darkness prologue reminded me of Neo at the end of the original Matrix. The way he seemed to just kind of slide into his own supremacy. The comparison between the challenge of the Sranc and that of the Nonman made the Nonman pretty intimidating too. I read a book about the Crusades for a high school history essay, I don't think it was the same one. It too offered a pretty jarring account of the battles involved. The thing that struck me the most about it was the mental picture you're left with, of these grizzled, defiant men of the First Crusade. They must have been the most intimidating enemy. view post

posted 20 Jul 2004, 18:07 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

And that's the thing that struck me - that mere [i:35s89lwo]belief[/i:35s89lwo] could be capable of generating such extremes, not only of cruelty and self-sacrifice, but of endurance as well. This is why I chose the First Crusade as my model: the Holy War's story would be scarce believeable otherwise! view post

posted 20 Jul 2004, 18:07 by Aldarion, Sorcerer-of-Rank

Just curious: Scott, by any chance have you read Torquato Tasso's epic poem, [i:hcpxipkr]Jerusalem Delivered[/i:hcpxipkr]? There's much of that raw emotion in that poem, although it's been greatly diluted with the love interest sections. view post

posted 21 Jul 2004, 12:07 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

No, though it sounds interesting. Is it on the web anywhere? view post

posted 21 Jul 2004, 16:07 by Aldarion, Sorcerer-of-Rank

Not for sure. I'd try Project Gutenberg [url:22ap3zts][/url:22ap3zts]. It's an almost 500 year-old epic poem originally written in Italian and was Tasso's attempt to be as good as Ludovico Ariosto (one of my three all-time favorite storytellers in poem form). But it's long: My English poem translation ran about 400 pages. view post

posted 03 Aug 2004, 19:08 by Rellion, Candidate

I recently reached a point in TWP where the first true battle of the Holy War begins. It reminded me of reading Lamb immensely. Seeing as I'd made a point of reading Lamb between TDTCB and TWP, I was very interested in how they read so similarly. It's a good narrative style and I had no problems imagining the battle in my head. Reminded me a lot of the first battle of Doryleum. view post

posted 03 Aug 2004, 19:08 by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Where did you find it? I have found that it is out of print, so the only way I could get it would be through an out-of-print dealer. Have you found differently? view post

posted 03 Aug 2004, 20:08 by Rellion, Candidate

I found it on actually, using one of their out of print dealers. It was 4.98 for a rough used copy with good condition copies running upwards of $30 US dollars. I got a copy for $5 US dollars with about the same amount for shipping. It is in decent condition, with some wear on the spine and some softness in the corners of the hard cover. The pages are somewhat yellowed, but the binding and glue is still strong and the insert photographs are still all there (there are photos of Bohemund's tomb, the first page of the Unknown's narrative, and some medieval maps). The book is about 350ish pages in a small hardbound volume. It's very well written and while a very factual historical narrative, Mr. Lamb is very good with words. His introduction of a 'pale cheeked boy emperor' handing over his crown to a barbarian signalling the end of empire and the beginning of the Dark Ages at the opening is excellent and draws you right in. I've read similar works when I compare to Barbara Tuchmann's Guns of August (a WONDERFUL narrative of the first 4 months of World War 1) so I really got into it and enjoyed it. view post

posted 03 Aug 2004, 20:08 by Sovin Nai, Site Administrator

Great. I just ordered it from used and out of print. Thanks for the info. view post

posted 05 Aug 2004, 04:08 by steve, Peralogue

I agree with saintjon, your writing really brings the fights both small and large to life. view post

posted 09 Aug 2004, 18:08 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

It's awesome that you guys have been able to find Lamb's book - I've only ever seen it in used bookstores. Even after all this time I still go back to reread IMaIS (I don't find his other works nearly so engaging), and almost every time I feel as though I learn more about narrating epic events. Something about the story and teller really come together in that book. view post

posted 10 Aug 2004, 03:08 by JustifiedHeretic, Peralogue

I must say Mr. Bakker, that I've read a lot of works, with battle scenes, and to be brutally honest...everything pales in comparrison to your style. The way that in the end of WP when the the men of the Tusk are mere skeletons, yet rout the Kianene merely with their fanatisicm....(and need to eat), it was just incredible. Truly, I salute you. I was beginning to wonder if fantasy novels would ever appeal to me again, then I found your works, and BAAAAMMMM I didn't put them down. Ahh the way Akka blasted those Scarlets in the Library, or even the little doll killing that cat...oh it was intense! view post

posted 10 Aug 2004, 12:08 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Cool beans, JH! It's certainly not to everyone's liking, though. Most people skip the orders of battle in the [i:w1krh2en]Illiad[/i:w1krh2en] I suspect. view post

posted 10 Aug 2004, 12:08 by JustifiedHeretic, Peralogue

This is true, it is doubtful they would appeal to everyone, I'm just saying they way that you wrote the scense, heck even your entire books, I couldn't help but place myself as one of the characters, happy and disappointed at my actions, or during the times when i wasnt there (For some reason I made myself Proyas, favortie character) anyways, when i wasn't int he scene i just envisioned myself near by, always abel to hear and see what was going, the way things were written, it was as if, no matter what you were right there at the fire with Akka, Zin, Esmi, Serwe, Dinch, and Kellhus, on the field with the men of iron, inside the starvation at Caraskand, wandering through the steppes with Cnauir and Kellhus, truly incredible. view post


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