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What if Kellhus was one of us? posted 17 Jul 2007, 07:07 by xatantius, Candidate

'Just a slob like one of us..." Lol anyway...Hypothetical question-Would Kellhus have had the same success in today's world as he did in the Three Seas? Would he wield the same power or would he have been exposed as a fraud early on and dismissed as just another kook? I'm not sure personally, its a tough question. Somewhere in between the two i think. view post

posted 17 Jul 2007, 08:07 by professor plum, Peralogue

Paris Hilton seems to have trolled the U.S. relatively successfully. view post

posted 17 Jul 2007, 11:07 by xatantius, Candidate

That's true. And it also very scary. view post

posted 17 Jul 2007, 21:07 by Zarathinius, Auditor

Probably... he would find that in our modern world the most powerful people are not necessarily the most famous. He might use his mental abilities to become a technology wizard or a business giant (or both). Or maybe he'd become something more like Jason Bourne (I only saw the second movie, the [i:fd0vempn]Bourne Supremacy[/i:fd0vempn], but I still thought it was awesome). Undoubtedly though, the Secret Global Conspiracy® would try to draft him. view post

posted 19 Jul 2007, 01:07 by professor plum, Peralogue

And when they fail, they'll attempt to destroy instead... Just like with Paris Hilton. Her prison sentence was a farce set up by the Super Global Conspiracy®. She was supposed to die in there — but what the SGC® hadn't counted on were her superhuman reflexes and fighting ability. view post

posted 19 Jul 2007, 11:07 by TollofDays, Peralogue

She is indeed a most diabolical being. You now have the Kellhus image in my head holding a little dog in his arms and saying " That's hot". It is the most frightening picture. view post

posted 25 Jul 2007, 01:07 by anor277, Didact

I can see that this forum is full of a lot of heretics who would deny Paris Hilton's manifest divinity. view post

posted 25 Jul 2007, 02:07 by Zarathinius, Auditor

[quote="anor277":3scw9qlh]I can see that this forum is full of a lot of heretics who would deny Paris Hilton's manifest divinity.[/quote:3scw9qlh] I too find the people of this forum to be very intelligent and perceptive individuals. view post

posted 29 Jul 2007, 10:07 by xatantius, Candidate

What have you people done to my topic?? Stop talking about paris hilton you fools! view post

posted 29 Jul 2007, 23:07 by professor plum, Peralogue

That's Anasûrimbor Paris to you, xatantius. :twisted: view post

posted 31 Jul 2007, 02:07 by Madness, Peralogue

The scary thing about the Dûnyain and, in relation to this topic, Kellhus is that you already have a prime example of what would happen if Kellhus were here and now. The [i:7tqo2bu9]exact[/i:7tqo2bu9] [b:7tqo2bu9]same[/b:7tqo2bu9] thing. The Dûnyain were isolated from Eärwa for two thousand years. It just happens to be that in relation to our world those two millenia were more like say 1000 B.C.E till 1000 C.E. It's not a huge leap of imagination to think of Kellhus walking from Ishüal after the Dûnyain's two thousand year isolation to discover our vastly technologically advanced world. He would be able, undeniably, to manipulate us just as he did the men and women of the Three Seas towards some other insidious goal. Our technology would not surprise him. Our societies, though mistrusting and wary, would yield to him. We have no Cnaiur to reveal the Dûnyain to us. view post

posted 31 Jul 2007, 09:07 by anor277, Didact

[quote="Madness":33bknack]............... We have no Cnaiur to reveal the Dûnyain to us.[/quote:33bknack] Or if we do, thankfully they are all locked up in maximum security wards. I agree that we'd all be putty in Kellhus' hand; a few home truths, a few subtle insights, and we'd all be marching to Jerusalem or Istanbul or Salt Lake City or wherever Kellhus wanted to go. view post

posted 31 Jul 2007, 14:07 by TollofDays, Peralogue

Just a thought, do you think a modern day Kellus would use a political angle or a religious one? or both? view post

posted 31 Jul 2007, 14:07 by Madness, Peralogue

Since you've just named two of histories greatest manipulative tools without a Kellhus residing in our history, Toll, I'd say both. The Dûnyain, though as always I'd argue Kellhus will not remain one, exploit [i:1wc9zlij]every[/i:1wc9zlij] advantage. And, anor, your quite correct literally the Cnaiurs of our societies are locked away. Mostly, anyhow. However, I just meant that since there has been no Moënghus then there can be none who'd know of the Dûnyain. view post

posted 03 Aug 2007, 15:08 by Mulliman, Commoner

A Dunyain on Earth? Incredibly scary. This wont be a medieval matter, where news take ages to reach the next village, but one where information is brought across the glode in seconds. Dunyain operate through communication and manipulation. The entire [b:2iefdrzi]world[/b:2iefdrzi] would have been his Holy War :? . view post

posted 29 Aug 2007, 23:08 by Cohen, Peralogue

That was some funny shit!, Anasurimbor Hilton.....indeed. lmao :D view post

posted 21 Dec 2007, 17:12 by Writer, Candidate

Yeah, but what would Kellhus want with the world. He only got control of the Holy War in the first place so he could get to Moenghus. If he didn't then he'd just, I don't know, meditate or something. I don't think Kellhus would just go take over the world because it's there, it dosn't seem like a Dunyain thing to do. view post

posted 12 Jan 2008, 01:01 by Uroborian Circles, Candidate

Picks aren't necessarily black. They're just... not white. view post

posted 10 Feb 2008, 17:02 by Khan, Commoner

I don't think Khellus would be able to control Earth humans as easily as he did the ones in the Prince of Nothing series. He might get a few followers yes, but I think that people wouldn't follow him so easily. 21st century human beings are much, much smarter than the relatively middle age humans you find in the series. We aren't as impressed by intelligence, because intelligence is so common. We'd also be able to tell the difference between omnipotence and psychoanalysis. I think that the only reason that Khellus (and his father) were able to control people was because peoples convictions weren't that strong. They believed in honour, they were free to destroy people in the names of religion and enslave humans. We however, have understanding of the basic rights of human beings. Khellus wouldn't be able to take that from us, and so long as he couldn't, then we would be free from his manipulation. view post

posted 10 Feb 2008, 21:02 by Israfel, Peralogue

That's a lot of optimism, and I've gotta say, it reads to me like you've deliberately thrown that in to get a heated argument going :D "I think that the only reason that Khellus (and his father) were able to control people was because peoples convictions weren't that strong" - I think you'll find that in TTT Kellhus manages to control people whose convictions are incredibly strong. In fact, he seems to use them even easier because that strength of conviction gives him an especially powerful level in their psyche. Also, modern understandings of human rights doesn't prevent a lot of dodgy morality play going on, and even now people can be subtly manipulated through use of flattery, contrariness, etc if you know how they'd react - and Dunyain do. Kellhus doesn't always just read people, state his knowlede of inside their head and then say a new belief that they then follow, he uses their beliefs and fears etc and then subtly guides them around to a useful way of thinking. He finds arguments that will have the most impact and then sets them up in ways that you'll find convincing. People are open books to Kellhus, but that doesn't mean he just reads them - he has methods of manipulation that draw out people's doubts, and plays on their thoughts and feelings until their ways of thinking have been subtly misdirected. I think 20th Century people would be just as vulnerable as any other. view post

posted 10 Feb 2008, 22:02 by Shell, Peralogue

Maybe we are just more suspicious. Born and raised Christian (Catholic) I am supposed to believe the Jesus will come back to earth. Now seriously, if it really was Him, would you believe it? Or would you think He was some sort of very talanted David Copperfield with all the miracles? Sure, a certain portion of the population would know for sure it was Him, but I am pretty sure I would just think they were all delusional and nuts. Kellhus could manipulate us. Look at GWB, Karl Rove and D. Cheney who have most the country believing that Iraq was behind 9/11 and that was the reason for the war. Next it was "weapons of mass destruction" and THAT was the reason for the war - or maybe I have them mixed up. Then people are convinced that listening to our phone conversations and checking financial reports without a warrent is a good thing. OK, maybe I am the only suspicious one :shock: Jesus is gonna have a hard time with me, I might just miss the Rapture... view post

posted 11 Feb 2008, 01:02 by Harrol, Moderator

Yes we are easily manipulated in today's time. Kellhus would not come as a religious leader but rather as an incredibly smart politician who was not truly seasoned but the masses would sing his praises any ways cough... cough... Obama... cough... I live in Illinois and Obama is my Senator but he has done nothing to deserve these rave reviews he receives but look smart and thoughtful. Yeah I think Kellhus would sweep to power using our arrogance in thinking we are so smart therefore we must elect the most intelligent looking person. view post

posted 11 Feb 2008, 03:02 by Shell, Peralogue

Well, I was working off the theme as "Kellhus as God" as we don't really have a thread on "Is Kellhus a politician?" I think Kellhus would come as a religious leader. Does anyone really care who the leader of Switzerland is (pop. 7.5 million)? No offence to anyone Swiss - I really liked Switzerland when I was there. A leader who took control of Islam - 1.5 billion A leader who took control of Christianity - 2.0 billion A leader who took control of Hinduism - 900 million A religious leader gets you much, much further... . view post

posted 11 Feb 2008, 07:02 by Curethan, Didact

It would depend entirely on his mission really, dont you think? Dominating the holy war and later the three seas was merely a means to an end. Re: general intelligence, we are not really any smarter today than we were in medieval times. What has changed is the amount of knowledge that is stored within our society. What percentage of the population is aware of how a television actually works? Furthermore what percentage of people would be able to build a working prototype? Agreed that people (at least in the old and new world) are largely better educated - you can teach a parrot to talk, doesn't mean its smart. Our dependance on mass media and the pervasion of advertising would make it easier for Kellhus to manipulate and enslave if he had to, and his 'insights' would be just as amazing. Observe how he easily and quickly he dominated the Mandate, for example. Their real world corollary would be our scientists - men of peircing intellect and the highest levels of education but still vulnerable to the basic to the legion within and the darkness that has preceded them. Another point to consider in my arguement that we would be more vulnerable is the preponderance of mental illness and depression - compared to levels 700 years ago we are faced with these conditions on an epidemic level. Fertile ground for one like Kellhus. He might appear as an evangalist, a musician, a scientist, politician or even Paris Hilton... it would depend entirely on his objective, but we would still be as children before him. imo... view post

posted 11 Feb 2008, 14:02 by Shell, Peralogue

Oh man, Paris Hilton? :shock: Thanks, nice image in my head all day... view post

posted 15 Feb 2008, 20:02 by Shell, Peralogue

So during my 45 minute commute, my thought process on Monday went from Paris Hilton to Britney Spears...I know, worse and worse. Luckily, I had a three hour class on pandemic infuenza to drive away thoughts of useless blondes taking up too much of the country's neural cells. They both are so NOT getting the flu shot when the big pandemic hits. I vote NO. Anyway, Curethan, I agree we are not any smarter than medieval ages. Da Vinci = Newton = Stephen Hawking = Bill Gates. I just think we are more suspicious, cynical and jaded. Scenario: 1462, somewhere in France. Priest: "Oh no, the moon is eating the sun! All widows bang drums to chase the moon away! All virgins to pray with me naked! All: "OK!" Scenario: 2008, somewhere in France. "Eclipse? No, man, you need to see the lastest video on Cats Getting a Bath on YouTube!" All:... I don't think the Internet and mass media would make Kellhus more manipulative. One of his genius is looking into my eyes and seeing my deepest desire. YouTube would introduce him to billions, but he doesn't have that personal connection. Too many funny Eddie Izzard clips would divert my attention. OK, you say, he doesn't have to convince all of us, just our fearless leaders. I would counter with an example. Harrol and I are obviously on opposite sides on politics. Should GWB go on national TV and say "This here Kellhus guy is a right smart individual. I'm going to pull trees on my ranch. You just do whatever he says." Me and a whole lotta folks are going to get the ALCU involved, make a motion to place a tax all of Kellhus' actions, and try to pass legislation that will allow Kellhus and Cnaiur to marry if they so wish. In other words, We Will NOT Take This Without a Fight! On the other hand, let's say a certain female senator from NY stands up and says "Me and my husband Bill think that Kellhus is the most compassionate and intellegent being to ever walk this earth. You just do whatever he says." Harrol and a whole lotta other folks are going to stand up and say "Fie, Satan! We will never listen to you!" They will go home, gather up all their guns and form militias, make a motion to repeal the entire tax code, and try to pass legislation that Kellhus can only have one wife ever. No concubines allowed. Advertising? Are you really convinced that Tide cleans better than Cheer in hot water in 4 out of 5 trials? Or is that just a time to go find something to eat in the 'fridge? I admit, I am marketing's worst nightmare - push of a button takes me right past all of 'em. Mental illness? (scratches head). In light of this recent university shooting (since I heard the gunman stopped taking his meds a few weeks ago, and was acting "erratic".) you might have something there. Although the people that have a mental illness at any point in time are a small minority. There has been some discussion as to whether Cnaiur was mentally ill, and he certainly didn't roll over and follow Kellhus like a lost puppy dog. view post

posted 16 Feb 2008, 19:02 by Israfel, Peralogue

Well, think of the election process in America. Primaries, but especially caucuses still go gaga over that whole personal touch. And we know Kellhus can work crowds. Plus I'd echo Harrol in pointing out that it's not like demagogues or popular politicians have disappeared... We may be more cynical in some respects but there are still millions of gullible people out there. I think he'd just need someone to teach him mass-marketing or propaganda tools (like Cnaiur taught him war) and then he'd be made... Once he's elected or whatnot, all he's got to do is keep individuals and corporations happy and we know he could do that. It might be the first time a leader of one of our 'democracies' wasn't bound on all sides by corporate interests... view post

posted 16 Feb 2008, 22:02 by Harrol, Moderator

The esuccess of Obama makes me think that Kellhus would master events of this world eventually. What has Obama done in order to garner such support? Well he is so smart oh and he is African American so if he gets elected we will make history and prove to the rest of the world that we are not racist. Not that the rest of the world doesn't have its own racist problems :roll:. Back to Obama he has become a blank slate that everyone can write all their hopes and dreams on, but after four years we will see him differently. That is why i believe Kellhus could gain control he would come in looking benevolent, brilliant and strong. He would in a short time sweep the primaries all the while not he would asage the fears of his opponents. By the way the last election I voted for Ralph Nader not Bush. view post

posted 17 Feb 2008, 05:02 by Shell, Peralogue

Well, if Kellhus can take 6.3 billion people and turn us all into mindless pods, then he is truly all-powerful and frankly, not a very interesting character. view post

posted 17 Feb 2008, 08:02 by xatantius, Candidate

I think Kellhus wouldn'y install himself as President of the United States or Pope or whatever-not initially at least-because it would be too divisive. He'd probably set himself up as a kind of powerful philanthropist or something-maybe like Tony Robbins lol-and just quietly help bunches of people with spiritual problems while denying all the while he was anything special, and let his new devotees spread the word for him. He'd focus on helping notable cynics and sceptics to lend credence to his 'cause' or whatever, and gradually build up a following wherever he went. He'd travel a lot, so as not to become defined by one race or society, and soon a big worldwide cult thingy would be brewing. He'd start influencing prominent media stations and politicians, getting them to depend on him in crisis situations, by which time he'd run for President of the UN or something. He'd then call on all his supporters to get packin', and we'd have a big ol' worldwide coup goin' down :twisted: ...Or not... view post

posted 02 Apr 2008, 22:04 by Cohen, Peralogue

Aren't we all frogetting something here? Why would he even venture away from the Dunyain monestery? what would his mission be? Without a plausible mission we can not even guess as to what he could accomplish in these times. Of course he could do anything and we could argue what levels of control he would have on our society. Do we need to be saved? why would the Dunyain even want to save us? Would they care? I't not as if the Dunyain are all sitting around watching T.V wating for some mission. view post

Re: What if Kellhus was one of us? posted 26 Jun 2008, 00:06 by Callan S., Auditor

Aye, I was going to say that. But keep in mind, their mastery of circumstance isn't complete - that's why Kellhus leaves the monastary, because circumstances still control the Dunyain. Well, at the very least his dad thought mastery of magic was the next shortest step in mastering all circumstance, ergo, all circumstance is not yet mastered. Eventually circumstance makes one or more enter into the world - circumstance deciding their mission. What creeps me out is that the idea of such a monastary is kind of not terribly out of the ordinary. Wartorn refugees with their emotions torn from them make withdrawal from emotion part of their goals and manage to find a hiding spot. They, in their cold way, are able to set up a rigid breeding program as well. The set themselves to their task for a great deal of time, without the deviations that emotions create. Weve had enough wars in enough places over enough millenia just doesn't seem very epic fantasy. In a long, drawn out way, it could be taken as a moral as to why you should avoid war - you might end up making Dunyain. view post


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