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This time I got a question... posted 18 Nov 2004, 23:11 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Just found out that - once again - ALL the major genre publishers passed on the mass-market paperback rights to [i:den4yp8w]The Darkness that Comes Before[/i:den4yp8w]. Since we have so many big brains on this board, I thought I would field this question: What can a guy do to drum up some attention in the US? Maybe I should become a Dunyain spam master or something... view post


posted 19 Nov 2004, 14:11 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Ah, the dreaded answer: Time will tell. My agent says the same thing. Thanks for the encouraging words, Erthaelion. I never expected the book to be 'popular,' and I'm amazed at how well it's doing here in Canada, but the only real chance it has in America is for it to be affordable enough for people to take the risk on a no name, to see if it represents a direction they're interested in following. Maybe I am being impatient. But this is the [i:30qetegp]fourth[/i:30qetegp] time it's done the rounds in New York now. It's not like I'm writing experimental prose fiction or something... Sheesh. view post


posted 20 Nov 2004, 00:11 by Grantaire, Moderator

Hm. I see popularity as being a loop- very difficult to get into, but if you can get there, you're set. For example, at the local Borders (a very big bookstore), there's only one copy of TDTCB in the entire store, buried in the obscurity of the fantasy section. Someone who was actually looking through the fantasy section could find it, but for people who just look at books that are prominently displayed in the store and in the section, they would not find your book. For the most part, the books that are prominently displayed are not the best books. For example, novelizations of Star Wars movies are usually on racks on the ends of rows of books, whereas books like yours, and China Mievilles are deep into the rows. You've gotta be popular to be prominently placed, because stores don't want to take a risk on a relatively new and unknown author. And most casual browsers don't look indepth into the rows of books, they mainly look at what is prominently displayed. So, you have to be popular to be placed prominently...but have to be prominently displayed to get many readers. Quite a nasty little loop. Hopefully, you'll get somewhat of a cult following, which will eventually lead to popularity. Remember what happened to Donnie Darko? view post


posted 20 Nov 2004, 02:11 by Da-krul, Auditor

Everythings been said allready.... oh We'll at least us Canucks are catching on to the wave :) view post


posted 20 Nov 2004, 12:11 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Wasn't Donnie Darko killed when a jet engine crashed into his home? :wink: That positive feedback loop you're talking about really is the case. It actually [i:122dbe8y]seems[/i:122dbe8y] to be happening here in Canada - something which is blowing me away. But the American market is a different animal - far more saturated I think. I had a couple drinks last night with these guys who sold 45 000 albums here in Canada, where rocketing toward success, but for whatever reason, everything fell to pieces in the US, first saleswise, then bandwise... view post


posted 21 Nov 2004, 15:11 by Damaen, Candidate

No, no, dont you see, Scott? There isnt room beside such Bestsellers and obvious classics as "Shes Just Not That Into You," oprah's latest choice in random fiction (thanks, oprah), Shopoholic's Sister, etc perhaps if you explain to the publishers that your novels are Chic Lit? ;] if it makes you feel any better ive mailed 3 copies of Darkness to friends inthe US already. Damaen Press Int. We have distribution issues at the moment but are really looking forward to the 3rd quarter. view post


posted 21 Nov 2004, 17:11 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

That's awesome, Damaen. That 3rd quarter is always such a heartbreaker though! :wink: Maybe I should pose on the cover, you know, my hair-extensions blowing in the wind, my sunken chest and beer-belly gleaming with perspiration... view post


posted 22 Nov 2004, 06:11 by Andrew, Peralogue

This is a half-baked theory coming straight out of my A@@, but, maybe politically and culturally this ain't the best time for your type of book in the U.S.. Things seem pretty starch-collar right now in terms of the public's reaction to the mass media and offensive content. I'm think'n things like Janet's breast, and this new row involving the "desperate housewives" NFL commercial slot - Like, people seem to have realized that the public is sick of having flith forced on them and their little kiddies, so maybe the book publishing goons are second-guessing stuff that's a bit on the edge content wise. Not that I'm comparing your books to desperate housewives ads - i just mean, that the moral backlash might be catching some really worthy material as well as the stupid racey t.v. stuff. I dunno. It's unfortunate that for so many Canadian authors, the Rainbow's end is south of the border - but if you keep writing such fantastic stuff, I have no doubt that eventually someone down there will get it. Off topic now - i have to take a shot at Erthaelion for that Brooks/Jordan/Goodkind comment - there's such a Canadian elitism vis-a-vis the U.S. - and it's completely unjustified. Go down to any bookstore in Canada and the shelves are full of aforementioned crappy authors - and the canadian public are lapping it up. We're not brilliantly smart just because we're into Bakker, and U.S. publishers, which are in the business of making the most money with the least risk, aren't thoroughly stupid for not taking a chance on an unknown. The Sole reason I picked up Prince of Nothing was because it had Erikson's stamp of approval. I suspect there are many of us on this board in that same camp. The only reason I picked up Erikson was because some Chapters employee had it as their pick - and i was intriqued by the cover art of Chain of Dogs. It don't get no more smrt than that. view post


posted 22 Nov 2004, 15:11 by Aldarion, Sorcerer-of-Rank

Well Scott, it seems there are a few things at play here: 1) The bigshots aren't willing to take on another second rights deal. From what I have inferred from the numbers, Tor's probably a little disappointed with the relative lack of sales for Erikson's US re-release of [i:2wwcvude]Gardens of the Moon[/i:2wwcvude]. 2) It takes time to build that groundswell these days for non-American authors writing fantasy/SF. Took Erikson 4 books to get a US deal, so this might be par for the course. 3) Mass-market paperback right now might be getting things assbackwards, actually. The main buyers of MMPBs are those who've heard the buzz about the earlier release and just are waiting, but usually those numbers are dependent upon how well the hardcover version sold. Publishers have to sell a lot of MMPBs to recoup the costs in comparison to hardcovers. If I remember correctly, it isn't all that much more expensive to produce a hardcover than it is a paperback, so publishers would have to sell many more copies of a MMPB than a hardcover or softcover tradeback to break even. It's one of the reasons why today there are fewer and fewer releases ever going to MMPB, if I understand things correctly. You've read Miéville and know how popular he is now in SF/fantasy circles. But it wasn't until his fourth novel, [i:2wwcvude]Iron Council[/i:2wwcvude], released back in July, that he was available in anything over than softcover tradeback. The MMPBs of PSS and [i:2wwcvude]The Scar[/i:2wwcvude] weren't released until 2-4 years after the original tradeback releases. It took a lot of word of mouth for there to be sufficient demand perceived for his publishers to release MMPB editions. I'm guessing the same might be holding true for you. Hate to say it, but you might have to be patient and pray that the current "viral" approach continues to spread. Also, if $25 is too risky, would it be feasible to see if Overlook might follow Penguin Canada's example and release the books in tradeback form? $13-16 in that form might be just enough to generate a few more new sales. Besides, tradeback appears to be the way that most fantasy/SF publishing is going these days, mega-sellers excepted. I highly doubt there'll be new releases/re-releases of Wolfe's work in MMPB format, the same for Charles de Lint. Yet they seem to be doing well enough, right? So maybe it's just a matter of staying the course, pushing for tradeback editions as a compromise, and hope that the quality will be spoken for enough by people such as myself that eventually the MMPB versions will come? view post


posted 22 Nov 2004, 15:11 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Ayuh. There's a few other factors involved as well. Not many seem pleased with the prospect of splitting NA rights. For no names such as myself, initial cost is horribly important. Overlook will be releasing trade paperback versions - which likely help quite a bit - but for some reason that $10 mark seems to be the magical number. Berlin before Manhatten, I guess... view post


posted 22 Nov 2004, 15:11 by Mithfânion, Didact

[i:2w4cas9a]I highly doubt there'll be new releases/re-releases of Wolfe's work in MMPB format, the same for Charles de Lint. Yet they seem to be doing well enough, right? [/i:2w4cas9a] Well actually, they are. For instance, The Knight by Gene Wolfe is coming out in MMPB in January and De lint has mmpb's as well. Overlook doing a trade version seems like a good option as long as no one is willing to do a pocket. In any case, I also think that once the trilogy has been completed and there's been lots of word-of-mouth, than publishers might be more inclined. On the other hand I don't really understand why no one in the US wants these rights. I just don't get it, but then I never understood why it took five years for a US publisher to decide they wanted Steven Erikson either. [/i] view post


posted 22 Nov 2004, 16:11 by Aldarion, Sorcerer-of-Rank

Well Mithfânion, the problem with second rights is the same as getting a used car - they just aren't worth as much, money-wise, to the publisher. While the author can make more money with very little to no writing for the reprinted story, the publishers just aren't willing to shell out as much money, in part because of differing legal obligations to the first rights holder/publisher. As for new Wolfe being published in MMPB form, very surprising, considering his "literary" reputation and the relatively small number of sales (around 30K or so a book since the Sun cycle books, if I remember correctly). Then again, I did read where Tor has decided to market him as a big-name author again (printing 50K books for The Wizard). view post


posted 23 Nov 2004, 12:11 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Traditionally though, publishers didn't worry all that much about small initial margins, being intent on 'developing' new authors. view post


posted 23 Nov 2004, 13:11 by Aldarion, Sorcerer-of-Rank

Traditionally, yes, that was indeed the case. But now in the age of mega advances for a few top players, companies just aren't patient enough to develop new talent. It's more of a throw shit at the wall strategy, to see which authors will stick/sell quickly with a minimum of promotion. This "microwave" approach really has been a major factor in the decline and fall of the "midlist." Actually, it might be a good thing to be a decent priority for a mid-level publisher at this time, because you're less likely to get lost in the shuffle. But long-term aspirations certainly don't address today's needs/desires, do they? view post


posted 23 Nov 2004, 16:11 by Damaen, Candidate

you know, its wierd. I had a friend come into the stor ethe other day to buy a book. He wanted Darkness, but he saw that we had returned all the trade paper copies and he refused to buy mass market paperback, so he bough Jonathon Strange & Mr Norrell instead. canada like to flaunt the money i guess. Poor, economically downturned america. view post


posted 23 Nov 2004, 19:11 by neongrey, Peralogue

Geez, I wish I had the money to be able to pooh-pooh mm paperbacks, instead of having to wait for them to buy. :/ view post


posted 24 Nov 2004, 20:11 by Mithfânion, Didact

On other but related news, I just read that Orbit UK has bought the British rights to Prince of Nothing from Simon & Schuster and will start that off by releasing mass market paperbacks of the first two books in Summer 2005. view post


posted 24 Nov 2004, 23:11 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Mith! Aw, man... Are you [i:19o3fwjy]ever[/i:19o3fwjy] going to let me release any news first? I haven't even signed anything yet! :wink: Definitely excited though, about being with a dedicated SF&F line, and more than anything, about working with Darren Nash once again, who was my editor at S&S before Viacom pulled out the knives. view post


posted 25 Nov 2004, 15:11 by Mithfânion, Didact

Lol ! Sorry :D :twisted: view post


posted 05 Dec 2004, 08:12 by saintjon, Auditor

Well, I'm not sure if this can help in any way whatsoever, but I've always felt Nicole Kidman had a good line in that one movie where she said, "You're no one in this country unless you're on t.v." or something like that. Worked for Stephen King back in the day. It's really too bad you even have to worry about it. Kind of saddens me about this country in general that a great canadian author would have to worry about the consequences of not crossing borders. view post


posted 05 Dec 2004, 15:12 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Thanks for the words of drummer wisdom, Arsenal. Maybe someday I'll be huge in Brazil... :wink: How are things back in Van? view post


posted 14 Dec 2004, 22:12 by Fell, Peralogue

Hello Scott, I wish I had some numbers for you, but I do not. I would imagine that Amazon.com would be your easiest, most affordable way to drum up more recognition south of the border. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 585675598/ Personally, I do 99% of my book previewing on Amazon.ca. It allows me to find other books of the same genre, find new authors, read others' reviews, et cetera... and it's actually where I first came across [i:2iacxzmf]TDTCB[/i:2iacxzmf]. Those "Listmania!" features on Amazon are an awesome tool, and if you can inspire fans to add your book to their lists, others with similar interests will come across them. Also, here is where you might catch your literary audience: getting the books associated to lists, mediums, forums, and other mediums [u:2iacxzmf]not[/u:2iacxzmf] fantasy-oriented. I don't read fantasy, with the exception of Clive Barker and other dark surrealists (Iain Banks, Graham Joyce, etc), and I have gone on to buy copies of [i:2iacxzmf]TDTCB[/i:2iacxzmf] for two friends, as well as inspired two other friends to purchase and read then — all of whom love the books now, and only half of them are into fantasy. I would suggest mapping out a correlative map of associations between what your product is and what it can be associated to. As I said in a previous post, I guest-lecture at the University of Alberta on contemporary occult studies and practise, and I now use passages from your books and suggested [i:2iacxzmf]TDTCB[/i:2iacxzmf] on the last hand-out I had (of a small selection of fiction to pursue, among the likes of Frank Herbert, Alan Moore, and Grant Morrison). Try some Buddhist forums, or spiritual, or occult, et cetera. I have plugged it many times on OccultForums.com, so I am sure it can spread elsewhere... historical fiction, philosophy, religion, warfare, whatever. Fantasy is obviously saturated in the U.S. Not to say that your works don't have what it takes to make it, but all in good time. Right now, you want to market yourself as pertinent, as a literary work of fiction, in other important circles. view post


posted 15 Dec 2004, 06:12 by Gable, Candidate

Whaddaya MEAN what's it gonna take to drum up attention in the US?! Give Cnaiur a gun. Semi-automatic, I'd suggest, but hey--I'm not even published. Oh, and maybe, while the Holy War lays seige to the next bastion of the Fanim infidels..have them play a little football scrimmage before the fortress walls. Have the Emperor and Maithanet next confrontation take place in a McDonalds. Simple things, Scott. Simple things. Seriously, Good luck. Your books rock--it'll happen. Last resort--fake your own death. Hell, I never gave Nirvana a second-glance before that blond fella died. (kidding) view post


posted 24 Dec 2004, 18:12 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Some great ideas, Fell - and thanks for plugging the book by the way! My difficulty is that I have such a hard time with SELF-promotion - something in me literally cringes. I could never be a politician... :roll: What I need, Gable, are some action figures for a Happy Meal! view post


posted 27 Dec 2004, 09:12 by Fell, Peralogue

[quote="Cu'jara Cinmoi":3mgecksf]Some great ideas, Fell - and thanks for plugging the book by the way! My difficulty is that I have such a hard time with SELF-promotion - something in me literally cringes. I could never be a politician... :roll: [/quote:3mgecksf] Think of it as symbolic association, rather than self-promotion. Look at it this way, you't not worth any more than any of us are. I have specialties I am acknowledged for, as do you, as do many others. We are all equal in capacity, but unequal in opportunity. If you — or preferably, your agent — can bridge the association between what it is you do to other fields, then you will see a true, powerful cult following develop. The easiest way to build something new is to associate something radical with already-established ideas and symbols. Too difficult to just make a splash in uncharted waters. Or, in this case, in a pond already burdeneed by torrential downpour. Take your stone and skuip it across someone else's pool this time. view post


posted 27 Dec 2004, 12:12 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

I made a pitch to Daniel Richler at BookTelevision. We'll see how that works out... view post


posted 27 Dec 2004, 16:12 by Annabel, Peralogue

I know next to nothing about publishing but I think you need more press in the USA. Most of your interview/signing dates seemed to be in Canada. Do you ever get down to the lower 50?? Also, here's how I find new sci-fi fantasy to read. Easiest way - I find a book I like on Barnes & Noble or Amazon and then I see what other readers of the same book enjoyed. Or, I pop onto a favorite author's site and see what they recommend. Here's a sneaky suggestion (thinking like the Consult, ahh!) - why not have your fans on this site infiltrate other really popular authors' discussion boards and lavish loads of hyperbolic praise on your books. The really active sites like, oh, the Jacqueline Carey site or, mebbe, Bright Weavings (the Guy Gavriel Kay site). view post


posted 27 Dec 2004, 17:12 by Annabel, Peralogue

Going back and reading all the posts, yeah, Scott, maybe you should hire a personal trainer and do some beauty shots for ads/back of novels. Part of the reason I keep reading Mieville is because the man's a hottie (the bald head, the muscle tees, the tight jeans, the tattoos, the British accent - c'mon, is he REALLY the author?). And I always thought that Gavriel Kay's books would do so much better if he just posed with G-string on the back of the novels instead of those tweedy, patch-elbowed jackets. view post


posted 29 Dec 2004, 00:12 by painbird, Candidate

well as for me, i saw tdtcb in hardcover at a local barnes and noble (i live in new hampshire, usa) and bought it. my wife said something along the lines of 'sheesh, $25 on a book by a guy you've never heard of. you BETTER like it.' now it's not the $25 is a lot of money but i had recently had a bad string of books that i could not finish and probably spent about $50 on crap (terry goodkind being one of the crap books, sorry to his fans) so she was weary. i picked up the book that night and was amazed. 'holy shit' were my words, 'this book is f*cking great' and i was only about 100pages in. i finished it quickly, ordered twp from the great white north and have told everyone i can that they need to read these books, that they are the best fiction i've ever read. i am trying. i think that there are so many books out there and the few good ones get lost in the shuffle. it reminds me of the music industry. pop everywhere and all the good stuff is so hard to find and even harder to market. people have no attention span and want fast and dumbed down reads. the majority of people don't want to think, it's really too hard and sometimes they get headaches. because of this, i think companies know what will sell and continue to overlook the true artists and keep pumping out the easy stuff. just my humble and somewhat incoherent opinion. view post


posted 29 Dec 2004, 00:12 by Annabel, Peralogue

Agreed, Painbird, with SOME of the above. Actually, I think that the media, the press and the publishers underestimate the sophistication levels of the general populace. How else do you account for the international success of writers like Eco? He even got a movie starring Sean Connery. Or the success of the Passion of the Christ - it was in Aramaic for god's sake. Its not the level of taste that is the problem, its laziness. Americans are slothful - we like to have our culture spoon fed to us through mega-bookstores, chain record stores and the telly. And, bright sparkly things entrance us - we gravitate to those big, colorful ads, displays, etc. However, most people know good stuff when they see it and will spend the $$$ for it. For most fantasy fiction, frankly, it ain't Hegel or nuclear physics and, as with all good fiction, there is always engaging human drama. So, I just don't understand publishing. Can anyone enlighten me as to the underlying economics which are driving publishers to take fewer and fewer risks on new authors? view post


posted 29 Dec 2004, 01:12 by painbird, Candidate

i agree with you and now disagree with me. i was searching for the right point and you made it. we are lazy. 100% true. big colorful ads to entrance us and we tend to buy things with big letters and fancy colors. maybe thats why i always go for the understated and soft spoken. the cover of tdtcb was quiet and unassuming and thats why i picked it up. i love this country but sometimes the trends we follow and they things we buy and buy into astound me (pop music, terry goodkind). p.s. maybe i am being unfair to pop music. :) view post


posted 29 Dec 2004, 04:12 by Annabel, Peralogue

Painbird. Uh uh. You aren't being unfair to pop music. You are being too kind. 99% of the music MTV and the top 100 is manufactured SHITE. Really, its quite remarkable. Rythmically and melodically redundant, boring and derivative. Lyrically devoid of any real meaning or resonance with human experience. Most of the singing barely mediocre. Geez, its not even funny. [As an aside, I think the downward trend started in the 80's when the criteria for musical success was, like, really cool hair. Think Flock of Seagulls or glam metal.] Actually, I guess some of it is funny - inadvertently. I actually listened to the entire Country Grammar cd by popular artist, Nelly, and I had a stitch in my side by the end of it. All the "bitches" and "ho's" and "f--- this" and "f--- that" was just so relentless - I thought "what an outrageous satire". Unfortunately, I think it was not meant that way. [I suppose, in the end - if its got a good beat and you can dance to it . . . I will admit I've boogied down to some really bad music.] Anyway, we should probably start a new thread - we can call it the "Luddites Bitch Here" thread. view post


posted 29 Dec 2004, 13:12 by painbird, Candidate

the other thing about pop music and Nelly in particular (my wife likes him, unfortunately) is that in any given song, he will slaughter the English language. Why? Because it's cool i guess. It’s cool to sound dumb? I don’t get it. this is why it’s hard for tdtcb to break into the US. This is what Bakker has to deal with. view post


posted 07 Jan 2005, 04:01 by Faelcind Il Danach, Peralogue

Well I am an american and Have purchased the first two books went to vancouver BC to get the second. Don't know what sales figures are but you have great buzz in online community I hope that will help. view post


beyond my ability posted 22 Jan 2005, 22:01 by ilana richardson, Candidate

it is beyond my ability to understand why people are not picking your book up. But i have a guess. It's because before i randomely picked up your book out of despair since all the big name authors sucked, i'd never heard of the series. No fantasy fan who ever reads your works will ever become anything less than a die hard for-life fan. Your books are beyond anything, they're that drink of water to the starving marooned sailor, boiling on the deserted beaches of popular fantasy. I think some publicity would do the job. The only reason i can think for your books having trouble in the US is just that. Not enough publicity. There's no doubt, and iv'e read fantasy all my life, that you're the new collosus in fantasy. Your books fill that gaping hole burrowed into fantasy lovers everywhere by cliche characters weilding the pickaxes of no talent. I can only scratch my head and say, give it time. Your books are great, your talent undeniable. As more and more people read your books in the US, you'll come into your well deserved own. view post


posted 23 Jan 2005, 01:01 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Thanks for the encouraging words, ilana! I think you're right on the money as far as the American market goes. There's just so much clamouring for peoples' attention that it's hard for the peep-squeaks to be heard. view post


posted 25 Jan 2005, 02:01 by Annabel, Peralogue

Painbird - a very late reply to your last post. I don't know - sometimes, yes, I think that modern rap and pop stars are slaughtering the English language. Why can't they rap in proper English? Then, I think - that sounds really silly? Am I being really uptight? After all, good old Bill Shakespeare made up words left and right and spelled words differently from poem to play. I suppose English was more "in flux" at that time but maybe that "flux" is what spurred an artist like Shakespeare to bend and mold the verse into interesting new forms. Not that Nelly is Shakespeare -but just another viewpoint. I, like you, tend to get cranky about things like this - I fight the urge to be curmudgeon daily. view post


posted 25 Jan 2005, 02:01 by Annabel, Peralogue

Maybe our favorite author should write The Thousandfold Thought in rhymes. Maybe Cnaiur could start up with a little gangsta rap at the start of every meeting of the great names. view post


posted 25 Jan 2005, 03:01 by White Lord, Subdidact

[quote="Annabel":1ezgkd4v]Maybe our favorite author should write The Thousandfold Thought in rhymes. Maybe Cnaiur could start up with a little gangsta rap at the start of every meeting of the great names.[/quote:1ezgkd4v] :lol: That's a good one! And I think you're not so very wrong either... view post


posted 28 Jan 2005, 19:01 by Annabel, Peralogue

Not so very wrong? Do you mean just a little bit wrong but mostly right? You sounds just like me, White Lord! (sigh) Am I virtuous or a vacillating fence sitter? Does seeing both sides all the time result in wisdom and broad-mindedness or a harmful paralysis? Sheesh -- I can't decide! view post


posted 31 Jan 2005, 06:01 by Faelcind Il Danach, Peralogue

I have no problem with the use of different forms of the language in hip hop proper english is just the vareity spoken by the elite. Languages are dynamic, constantly changing. The problem in hip hop is the lack of creativity, I don't care if they say aks instead of ask but when a song containing only three words (ass, and, titties) can become a radio hit lyrics clearly don't matter anymore. Which is a shame because that that is what made hip hop vital and powerfull in the first place, having rythmic as opposed to melodic lyrics allows you to pack allot more lyrics into a song. Hip hop was orginally about clever word play and at its best social comentary. Now its most about bling, b!tchs and big cars, and flowless wonders like DMX are major stars, its ridiculous. Guys like Mos Def can still bring it but I 95 is hip hops equivalent of what happened to rock in 75. The genre, stagnanted, become co-opted and stopped having anything worthwile to say. view post


posted 31 Jan 2005, 18:01 by Annabel, Peralogue

Faelcind - Absolutely in agreement with you. To draw an analogy to sci-fi and fantasy (and bring it round to the theme of this particular board), Tolkein spawned generations of derivative work which, frankly, became progressively formulaic and unimaginative. Too bad for readers, like us, and all the more reason to applaud Scott Bakker for putting some originals twists and ideas in a (nearly) exhausted genre. Or others like Guy Gavriel Kay who write so feelingly of human experience that old stories become new and fresh again. view post


posted 10 Mar 2005, 01:03 by Faelcind Il Danach, Peralogue

Exactly annabel good analogy it points out that genres can be reenergized which I hope is happening with rock and will happen with Hip hop. view post


posted 03 May 2005, 18:05 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

I want to thank ALL of you for your support. Just recently, the statistics (apparently, only one out of ten new writers succeed) have started sinking home - this is a hard gig to make work - and I have no doubt that if wasn't for you all spreading the profane word, I'd be marking papers and 'educating' college students. Nobody wants that... :wink: view post


posted 21 May 2005, 13:05 by diarmuid, Peralogue

seems to me that "popularity" for want of a better word, is probably quietly building as we speak. person to person, she told two friends, and so on. calling the group here at this board, the active ones at least, a group of say.......50 ppl. llok at that group after a couple of exponential events and you have something like ...wel....alot anyway. Scott as per your sucess I have no doubts of ANY kind....I just think it is gonna take some time fella. Same for most bands of any skill at all, ditto singers, ditto artists. However, a talent like yours will not be silent. Now write another book, swiftly, lest I grow wroth! view post


posted 23 May 2005, 17:05 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Encouraging words, Diarmuid, and heartily appreciated. Things have been looky kinda sketchy as of late, and I keep trying to remind myself that the books haven't even been out for a year in the US yet. Part of the problem with this biz is that everything is so bloody deferred. It'll probably be three or four more years before I know whether I'll be able to hold down my end of a mortgage or not. After 20 years, the student lifestyle is wearing thin. :roll: view post


posted 23 May 2005, 17:05 by diarmuid, Peralogue

ya but it will probably be 6-8 years and you will be looking back thinking man i can't beleive I ever lacked that faith... or man I can't beleive I stayed in Canada during winter so often.... or man I should publish my laundry list to the best seller lists for a couple of years and then write a 14 tome epic with more subplots than fans.... view post


Re: This time I got a question... posted 02 Jun 2005, 01:06 by SymeonHaecceity, Peralogue

[quote="Cu'jara Cinmoi":1ifxh68g]Just found out that - once again - ALL the major genre publishers passed on the mass-market paperback rights to [i:1ifxh68g]The Darkness that Comes Before[/i:1ifxh68g]. Since we have so many big brains on this board, I thought I would field this question: What can a guy do to drum up some attention in the US? Maybe I should become a Dunyain spam master or something...[/quote:1ifxh68g] We could make up some fake "Oprah" book club stickers and put them on the books and place them in the Oprah section! Watch them FLY off the shelf! After the fraud is exposed, no doubt The Oprah will invite Scott Bakker onto his show. Sweet Sejenus, sometimes I am so damn devious I scare myself!!! view post


posted 06 Jun 2005, 13:06 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

Hmmm, what would I say to Oprah... The evil queen of sentimentalism incarnate. :twisted: view post


posted 21 Jun 2005, 01:06 by Randal, Auditor

I too found this series thanks to Ran's ezboard forum, and the many great reviews posted there. Word of mouth does seem to be effective.... (trying to convert my friends too.) Anyway, right now here in the Netherlands the mass market paperback has just been released, and I must say that all the bookstores I've visited these past couple of weeks are stuffed with your book. Piles of them everywhere, in the most prominent places. Even the tiny railroad station book stores I've visited stock TDTCBF, and their amount of English language books is limited to a half-dozen shelves... I don't know how the sales are going, of course, but apparently your book is seen as something big by by the stores here in the Netherlands. view post


posted 21 Jun 2005, 12:06 by Deerow, Auditor

Yeah I was in about 6 different book stores this week and I saw at least one of the books in the series (unfortunately some stores only had TWP, which may be a bad thing as newbies probably aren't going to go out and buy the second book in a series). Just something I did in all those bookstores that probably doesn't hurt is to turn Mr. Bakker's books so that the cover is facing someone walking by rather than the spine of the book. I figure people are more likely to notice something if it is staring them in the face than if it is just as small and tucked away as all the other books. view post


posted 21 Jun 2005, 13:06 by Atanvarno, Peralogue

When I went into Otakar's (I can never spell that darn name), they had TDTCB as their featured fantasy book with quite a good write up next to it. I have to say, while the cover isn't as good as the Canadian editions (which I have), the UK paperback are far better than the French ones. :wink: view post


posted 21 Jun 2005, 13:06 by Murrin, Peralogue

All the stores I've been to recently seem to have a lot of copies of the tDtCB mmpb. However, something that seems a little odd is that I have never, in any store at any time, seen a copy of tWP. They're pushing tDtCB quite strongly, but they don't even stock tWP. view post


posted 27 Jun 2005, 14:06 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

That's all awesome news, though it's frustrating that it's too far away to see with my own eyes. I've always wanted to have a 'movie moment...' You know, how in the movies authors always accidently encounter towering display windows filled with their books. To bad this wasn't a movie... But then, taking a cap in your ass is never cool. [quote]However, something that seems a little odd is that I have never, in any store at any time, seen a copy of tWP. They're pushing tDtCB quite strongly, but they don't even stock tWP.[/quote] That would be because TWP doesn't come out until July 7th! :wink: [quote]I don't know how the sales are going, of course, but apparently your book is seen as something big by by the stores here in the Netherlands.[/quote] I knew I liked the Dutch for some reason... :wink: view post


posted 27 Jun 2005, 15:06 by Murrin, Peralogue

[quote:3s4fry9h][quote:3s4fry9h]However, something that seems a little odd is that I have never, in any store at any time, seen a copy of tWP. They're pushing tDtCB quite strongly, but they don't even stock tWP.[/quote:3s4fry9h] That would be because TWP doesn't come out until July 7th![/quote:3s4fry9h] :oops: Heh, did it get delayed again? I always miss these things. view post


posted 01 Jul 2005, 04:07 by saintjon, Auditor

[quote="Cu'jara Cinmoi":13rmeln0]Hmmm, what would I say to Oprah... The evil queen of sentimentalism incarnate. :twisted:[/quote:13rmeln0] Evil queen of sentimentalism incarnate meets the creator of the Great Anti-Sentiment.... Goddamn I would actually watch that episode of Oprah. The best would be one of those dinner parties, you could sit there sipping your drink and hit her with your pet fear of non-existant free will, I don't think I took that one very well overall but I know I did better than she would. view post


posted 01 Jul 2005, 14:07 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

She's into affirmation and the power of positive thinking and all that crap, isn't she? It wouldn't be good. Successful people are pretty fond of taking responsibility for their success - and holding others accountable for their lack of it. It's a guilt-free recipe for living lavishly in a world where children starve. view post


posted 01 Jul 2005, 16:07 by saintjon, Auditor

I think I'd like to see Cnaiur vs. Dr. Phil more than Oprah vs. Kellhus though LOL! view post


posted 23 Jul 2005, 00:07 by Regulus, Commoner

Hello all, My first post here...just wanted to say I live in NYC and just had the books delivered about 5 days ago and have just 100 pages left on TWP. I think they are amazing and have been doing nothing but telling everyone who will listen about them. I dont think I could really add much in the way of how to make your book big in the US but I thought I could tell you how I came across them. I was in Barnes and Nobles and [i:1g7i65r6]The Darkness that Comes Before[/i:1g7i65r6] was on the side display of the aisle, I picked it up, read the description and thought I would like it. I didnt buy any books that day but I did add it to my Amazon wish list a few days later so I wouldnt forget. Now 3 months later I had them delivered and I am extremely happy I did order them (special 2 book price on Amazon). Best money I've spent on books in a long time. view post


posted 28 Jul 2005, 01:07 by target, Auditor

I got a seasonal newsletter through which reviewed TDTCB. The newsletter's cover featured the cover artwork for TDTCB & I loved it, so i found the review & read on. The premise sounded very interesting and the review was positive, i was hooked before i picked up the book. I waited all year for the release and couldn't put it down once i had my hands on it. I've been trying to get as many people as possible to listen to me and read them, but im not having much luck at the moment. Most of my friends aren't int ofantasy or think it will be too over their heads. Maybe you could try Max Barry's idea (recently almost acted out by Nike) of promoting your work by not releasing it, creating a lot of hype and then releasing a few copies. Then, in the general rush to buy the item, orchestrate some well planned murders to appear as though people are so excited, they will kill for your product. That shuold definately get people interested. It would be very time consuming, fraught with danger and down right ludicrous though. So in retrospect, that probably doesn't help....Sorry. view post


posted 02 Aug 2005, 13:08 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

I've come close to being lynched for being coy about releasing details, could you imagine what would happen if I got coy about releasing the [i:2b7852dj]books[/i:2b7852dj]? I'd be like Frankenstein lurching for his life, while Mithfanion led the villagers with his pitchfork brandished... :wink: I think word of mouth is the key for these books - a hearty thanks to both of you, target and Regulus! The books have only been out for a year in the US, so far, and they've already established themselves. The important thing is that they continue to grow... I gotta stop gazing into the gift-horse's mouth! view post


posted 02 Aug 2005, 15:08 by target, Auditor

Woo-hoo, thanxs from the author himself. That's vindication for you :D I'm getting my housemate to read the books, so soon i will be able to discuss the books with someone discovering them for new, and get their perspectives on them. She always has interesting perspectives, she can be a little odd at times. I think what we all need now is for Scott to make a marketing trip to England, specifically to the University of Birmingham's branch or Waterstone's so i can meet him and have my books signed :D Of course, the major branches in the city centre would probably be a better idea for marketing purposes but it means i have to travel further.....still, please make the trip, i would think it would be worth it. At least let me know if you can make it to good ol' Blightey. Cheers, and keep up the good work! view post


posted 09 Aug 2005, 11:08 by WhiteLineRacer, Candidate

Hello Cu'jara Cinmoi, I'm of no great intellect and I absolutely loved your book so don't think you have written yourself out of the bigger market. As I mentioned in the welcome section while reading your books I found myself wandering around and being not quite sure of which world I lived in. That's how solid the world you created was to me. Wanna know why I chose your book? All the book shops I have visited have many books all stuffed with Authors who's books I've either finished (Fiest, Hobbs, Kerr and some others) or for some reason seem very thin, or very Sword of Shannara'ish. Every shop is exactly the same, it's unbelievable. It's like there are only about 20 authors out there! Between reading TDTCB and TWP I picked up a book my friend gave me borrow as I didn't have the cash to get the big version of TWP yet. I forced myself through a quarter of this book and could go no further, I threw it down in discust at the shallow crap I was forcing myself through and rushed out to get TWP. You bugger, your books have riuned my choice of further reading material as I have a horrible feeling many, many of them will fall very short of your standard. So in not so short I chose TDTCB because it sat there, three copies of it all on it's own between the massed ranks of books that seem to be there purely because every other shop stocks them. Why do book shops stuff their shelves with hundreds of copies of the same stuff, it's madness. There is so little choice, rather like supermarkets really, they all sell the same stuff because thats what they want us to buy. Now get on with the next one ;) view post


posted 10 Aug 2005, 00:08 by Deerow, Auditor

Actually my experience was similar. I didn't want to get into a huge series (ie Jordan) or something that at least seemed shallow to me (like the Shannara series) so I picked up TDTCB and read the back...saw it was the first book Scott had published and that he was Canadian and that he had background in philosophy which lead me to believe it would have much more depth in it (and I was happy with the result of that decision). Also I thought the map detailed a very vast world with a lot of possibilites. I read through some of the appendices and loved that Scott had set out these dozens of languages and factions and whatnot. Furthermore, as many others have pointed out, I liked that the cover did not resort to the stereotypical "Babes, blades, and barbarians" strategy that most of those $2 fantasy series go for. view post


posted 10 Aug 2005, 14:08 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

[quote:4y4fdag8]I liked that the cover did not resort to the stereotypical "Babes, blades, and barbarians" strategy that most of those $2 fantasy series go for.[/quote:4y4fdag8] So what's Serwe? Chopped liver? :wink: Thanks, Deerow and Whiteline. I'm hoping that when TTT comes out the three books will a more commanding shelf presence. A little German flag of possibilities in the midst of herculean arms and jewel-encrusted thongs. view post


posted 10 Aug 2005, 16:08 by Aldarion, Sorcerer-of-Rank

[quote="Cu'jara Cinmoi":1s5zc7e0][quote:1s5zc7e0]I liked that the cover did not resort to the stereotypical "Babes, blades, and barbarians" strategy that most of those $2 fantasy series go for.[/quote:1s5zc7e0] So what's Serwe? Chopped liver? :wink: Thanks, Deerow and Whiteline. I'm hoping that when TTT comes out the three books will a more commanding shelf presence. A little German flag of possibilities in the midst of herculean arms and jewel-encrusted thongs.[/quote:1s5zc7e0] Which of course begs the pseudoFreudian question of: "Did you plan that color scheme to honor the homeland of Nietzsche?" :P Oh, and hi. ;) view post


posted 10 Aug 2005, 17:08 by Cu'jara Cinmoi, Author of Prince of Nothing

I actually just realized it about three weeks ago - but then who knows when it comes to the unconscious? I'm constantly getting outwitted by my brain. :wink: Good to hear from you too, Larry. Just so you know, the ARCs should be out in a couple of months... view post


posted 10 Aug 2005, 17:08 by Aldarion, Sorcerer-of-Rank

Just as long as you're not whistling the Horst Wessel Lied, you should be (relatively) okay, Scott ;) And great news about the ARCs! Looking forward to it! :D view post


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