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posts by Guardsman Bass Candidate | joined 04 Sep 2006 | 16

posted 03 Nov 2006, 18:11 in Literature Discussiondark tower? by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

Anyways, I enjoyed the first two books of the Dark Tower series. [i:22su1qa9]Gunslinger[/i:22su1qa9] was enjoyable, and different from normal fantasy (I remember thinking "Holy s*&t!" when the main character did a certain something to an entire town). [i:22su1qa9]The Drawing of the Three[/i:22su1qa9] wasn't bad, although I think it got less enjoyable as it went on. The reason I didn't continue the series is because, to be honest, I really don't like the Dark Tower universe and setting. It just gives off this "Alice in Wonderland" type of vibe, when I personally prefer self-consistent, world-like fantasy worlds. view post

Question about the Tekne and soulled beings posted 07 Nov 2006, 20:11 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestion about the Tekne and soulled beings by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

We know that the Tekne can create various kinds of soulless, organic beings like the dragons, the skin-spies, and the Sranc. I also read on the debate thread about whether or not skin-spies have souls that the soulless skin-spies don't really have free-will and self-awareness, because they don't possess souls. So my question is, suppose you use the Tekne to create an exact duplicate of a living human being who can reproduce. Would this human being, who is supposedly an exact duplicate of a human being except that it is soulless, remain soulless? Would it grow a soul, like normal humans? And how would its self-awareness be affected? My memory of TTT is getting kind of hazy about the exact details mentioned on the self-awareness of non-soulled creatures and the like. view post

posted 08 Nov 2006, 00:11 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestion about the Tekne and soulled beings by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

The reason I asked is because if you could create a soulless human being that is, for all intents and purposes, identical to an ensoulled human being in terms of thoughts and actions, wouldn't this offer a rather interesting way for the Consult to wash themselves of slaughtering men and introducing the No-God? I mean, if you could create above, and replace ensoulled human beings with nonsoulled ones, technically both the Consult members and the non-soulled human beings would share the same fate upon death - oblivion. They might not get redemption, but they certainly wouldn't face damnation. The Sranc always struck me as kind of interesting. Although they are soulless, they seem to have at least some kind of intelligence, the ability to make and use tools, language, and social organization. Although that might be all-inbuilt, those are some complex behavior patterns for animals. view post

posted 08 Nov 2006, 04:11 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestion about the Tekne and soulled beings by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

[quote="Entropic_existence":3p3p0l29]Short answer: It would be inherently soulless Slightly longer: Nothing says it may not, for some reason, end up with a soul. Scott's answer on the subject, which I'm too lazy to look for, can actually be interpreted in more than one way and has been. However the fact that things created by the Tekne are inherently soulless stands. Earwa has some key metaphysical concepts that make it different from our own world. Of course we've never cloned a human and scientifically we have no definition of the soul or whether one exists so real world rules and logic don't really apply :)[/quote:3p3p0l29] I also think that the exact human clone would be soulless. My real concern, though, is whether or not it could be functionally indistinguishable from ensoulled humans. If it is completely indistinguishable from ensoulled humans, then it would probably be a good thing to be a non-ensoulled human. Like I said, though, the question would be whether it has anything resembling self-awareness without a soul. Like I mentioned, the Sranc seem to have some social complexity, tool-using, and language. What exactly would it mean for them to lack free will, is what I'm wondering. view post

posted 09 Nov 2006, 18:11 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestion about the Tekne and soulled beings by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

That's what I was wondering. The first Sarcellus skin-spy seemed to be capable of at least a degree of self-reflection in TDTCB; in his first POV section, he was getting excited over the thought that Wow, he might actually be able to screw someone already screwed by the old master!. Of course, you could claim that this is just very, very deep programming and not "real" consciousness, but then the question arises as to what the boundary between 'consciousness' and 'conditioning so deep that it has all the trappings of consciousness, including when we are seeing things from the point of view of the skin-spy'. view post

posted 12 Nov 2006, 07:11 in The Thousandfold ThoughtConsult Knowledge by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

I agree with Harrol. If I remember the glossary from TTT right, the number of Inchoroi who survived (about 1 in 100) the fall of the Ark to the ground was 100,000, meaning the original group numbered around 10 million. Add on to the fact that virtually the entire race other than the two brothers was annihilated in wars with the Non-Men, and you have a very bad situation for those who are trying to re-learn the Tekne ,especially since it is [i:3gp7imsp]very[/i:3gp7imsp] advanced, [i:3gp7imsp]very[/i:3gp7imsp] old technology, and if the Two Brothers weren't trained to use it, about all they'd be able to contribute to its reconstruction would be in assisting in translating possible instructions, and possibly identifying pieces of technology. Not to mention that the Inchoroi are very much aliens, albeit very corrupt ones by human standards. Large parts of the ship's technological organization may be build around entirely different concepts of aesthetics and use, that, while obvious in idea for an Inchoroi, could be extremely bizarre for a human. Just by comparison, remember that the gap between Nonmen and Men, for example, is big in some conceptual areas; men, for example, never figured out the Gnosis without Non-men Tutelage. Frankly, it's a miracle the Consult actually managed to assemble the No-God. It makes me wonder if the Inchoroi, before being essentially annihilated barring two members, actually completed most of the work on it, so all the Consult was required to do was figure out how the pieces went together. Certainly they (the pre-Curunoi War Inchoroi) seemed to have a better grasp on the Tekne then; that was when they built the Sranc, Wracu, and Bashrags. view post

posted 13 Nov 2006, 15:11 in The Thousandfold ThoughtConsult Knowledge by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

I suppose that wouldn't be too surprising, since the No-God directly affects the cycle of souls. view post

posted 16 Nov 2006, 22:11 in The Thousandfold ThoughtConsult Knowledge by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

Of course, that begs the question of, [i:1ig89cya]what if they are getting too insane to read their own writings?[/i:1ig89cya] It mainly makes me curious of what it means to 'resurrect the No-God'. Do they have to reconstruct him from complete scratch? view post

posted 20 Nov 2006, 16:11 in Author Q & AGnosis vs. Anagogis, and sorcery in general by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

Considering that the Gnosis can create abstractions and use them to attack, I'd imagine their summons would be much the same. Like you said, it'd be pretty interesting; imagine one of the Mandate Schoolman summoning a creature in the form of a mass of triangles, all of them representing different aspects of its power and essence, and much more difficult to target. At least we know that the Daimotic demons are probably analogies; the creatures described their hate at being contained within the world, and there were carving of Ciphrangs in that Xerashi throne room Kellhus sat in, if I remember right. view post

posted 22 Nov 2006, 15:11 in Author Q & AAspect-Emperor status by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

[quote="Phil":1w05v4h0]No, I'm not from that board. I'm from Manchester ;) Seriously though, I've not read any of Martin's series yet, I'm waiting for him to finish it. Too many unfinished series on my bookshelves already.[/quote:1w05v4h0] Hope you can wait until something like 2013, then. :) view post

"Murderous Children" posted 26 Mar 2007, 20:03 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]"Murderous Children" by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

It mentioned this on the Amazon plot synopsis. Do you suppose it possibly refers to antagonism between Esmi's child and not-so-little Moenghus? Both would be pretty formidable. Esmi's child would be half-Dunyain, and if Maithanet's any indication, then that type of genetic inheritance goes a long way. At the same time, as long as Moenghus didn't get too much of Serwe, he could be pretty formidable, like Cnaiur (who I'm pretty sure the father was). view post

posted 28 Mar 2007, 00:03 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]"Murderous Children" by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

[quote="jude":2mtayf3b]I can see Esmi's child being scary, but Moenghus, not matter how much of his father he got, is world-born. What made Cnaiur so dangerous was his exposure to Kellhus' father. Which isn't to say that Moenghus the smaller may not turn out to be one brutal fellow, but that he'll be a brutal fellow without the benefit of Dunyain breeding, and thus no kind of competition for Kellhus' real son. that having been said, none of that takes into account whatever training they've received from kellhus, which perhaps makes up for Moenghus' lack of breeding.[/quote:2mtayf3b] Cnaiur, despite his insanity, was still a very formidable figher, and a very intelligent general. With proper training, although he'd be no dunyain, he'd still be a formidable person. view post

posted 30 Oct 2007, 07:10 in The Thousandfold ThoughtInchoroi: Aliens or Demons? by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

I think we may be over-complicating the Inchoroi. From what we know for sure, they are extra-terrestrial travellers, and their Ark greatly resembles a starship which is described as crashing. It could simply be that they always had souls, but that on their homeworld, or while travelling in the void of space away from any particular world and its "outside", or even on any world other than that of Earwa, their souls were irrelevant. They didn't attract any attention from "agencies" as Bakker described in one of his responses to a question about how damnation, oblivion, and redemption work, and so their souls simply ceased to exist when they died. But all of a sudden on Earwa, the activities they do cause them to face suffering at the hands of "sulphurous little godlings" when they die, because now their souls draw the attention of the various nasty deities floating around in Earwa's Outside. Also, keep in mind that when the Inchoroi first appeared, the only men they would have seen would have been the slaves of the Non-Men. Since the Inchoroi themselves seem to be fond of using intelligible if not soulled creatures as servants (dragons, Sranc, skin-spies), they probably would have assumed that the Non-Men simply had done the same at first, and had tamed/created an intelligent animal "pet". view post

posted 30 Oct 2007, 07:10 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThere are 'no gods' by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

It's highly likely that the living Earwans' conception of deities is far from the complete pictures. I've suspected that since TTT's passage where Conphas and his men, fighting Cnaiur in the one city, see him outlined with the great shadow of the god Gilgaol (war itself). At the same time, we [i:26eu4n6g]do[/i:26eu4n6g] know that there is something to the whole "damnation" system, beyond the beliefs of the Inchoroi, Non-Men, and Men. When the one Scarlet Spires Sorceror (I can't remember his name; it begins with an "I") summoned a demon, it specifically mentioned that he was "damned" and asked if he "knew who would keep him for eternity?". view post

posted 30 Oct 2007, 07:10 in Author Q & AMen v. Nonmen by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

[quote="anor277":3lfmde83][quote="RennQu":3lfmde83]I also am highly curious about the Nonmen. From the description in the Cuno-Inchoroi Wars in the Encyclopedic Glossary found at the end of TTT, there is mentioned a "criminal" recruited for the Second-Watch. Sirwitta (a Halaroi aka Man) had not only seduced the wife of a Nonman Ishroi, but had also fathered a daughter by her named Cimoira............I do not understand why the Nonmen are "doomed" to extinction. It is evident from several passages that cross breeding in fact occured. Anasurimbor Nanor-Ukkerja I is said to have lived for 178 years due to reputed Nonman blood in his veins. Also the instance of Cimoira points to genetic compatibility between Man and Nonman. [/quote:3lfmde83] So we know that men are sexually compatible with "NonMan" women, but not with certainty the converse - i.e. women may not necessarily be sexually compatible with Non-men. (I agree that the converse is likely; but they may be limits to the Nonmen's ageless health, they may all simply be past it now, or maybe the Inchoroi physicians rendered them sterile as well.) As you say, it may simply be pride that prevents the Nonmen from mingling with men. At the moment we don't know. [/quote:3lfmde83][/quote] I think they still are. Although this may be only a story, supposedly the Anasurimbor line includes a Non-Man who raped a female Anasurimbor and got her pregnant. . [quote:3lfmde83] [quote:3lfmde83] Another thing that I had discovered in this section is that the Nonmen were not always Immortal- they aged (exact lifespan I cannot guess) in a similar manner to men, that is they grey, wrinkle, lose eyesight, weaken etc. Then Cujara-Cinmoi, fearing death, pardoned the Inchoroi on the condition that they "...banish death from the halls of my people". This is how the Cunuroi became, for lack of a better description, physically ageless. This is also when the "Womb-Plague" struck, possibly a byproduct of the physicians treatments. It effectively eliminates the female gender from the Nonmen, unless I am mistaken. I haven't truly decided the intent of the Inchoroi; was this intended? If so, wouldnt they have realized that the retribution for such treachery would be great? I digress... [/quote:3lfmde83] As far as I can tell, the womb-plague was almost certainly visited upon the Non-men by design. This was a terrible vengeance wrought by the Inchoroi, but maybe it also served another purpose: it removed the Nonmen from the great cycle of souls, and this served the Inchoroi purpose in closing the world to the passage of souls by ending the cycle of birth and death. No doubt the Inchoroi did anticipate the Non-men reaction. I don't have the glossaries with me now, but in the first encounter didn't the Inchoroi (now with dragons and chorae) prevail? Of course, the Nonmen defeated the Inchoroi eventually, exterminating all but 2 of them, but the damage had already been done.[/quote:3lfmde83][/quote] The Inchoroi were definitely prepared for when the Non-Men attack came; they unleashed all of their fancy new designer creatures, and in addition to that were probably using space-age technological weapons - I think the glossary mentions the Inchoroi using versions of the energy weapon that killed the No-God on flying craft. Keep in mind, though, that I think there were only 100,000 Inchoroi who survived the crash of the Ark to Earwa, and out of those, some were killed before when the Non-Men drove the Inchoroi into hiding in their ship. The Non-Men may have had a huge number advantage on them, particularly since this was before they had to fight a massive invasion of the Four Tribes of Eanna. I think Scott mentioned in the Q & A thread that without the immortality treatment, the lives of the Non-Men usually numbered around 400 years. view post

posted 30 Oct 2007, 07:10 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Kellhus + the Daimos by Guardsman Bass, Candidate

Assuming Gilgaol didn't grab Cnaiur's soul, then maybe (but I don't think Cnaiur is dead). view post


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