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dusted off in read-only
dusted off in read-only
Exactly! I haven't been able to figure that out. They'd had it so good among the Nansur. With Kellhus ruling the "Three Seas," that only leaves Sansor, Kutnarmu, Cingulat and Nilnamesh as sovereign nations. Granted they are in the Three Seas geographically, but I don't think they operate as a part of what is commonly recognized as "The Three Seas." The other thing I'm trying to figure out is where the Circle of Nibel is located. I'm speculating it's in the South somewhere (i.e. Cingulat, Sansor etc.). Also, I think that since the Nansur have pretty much ceased to exist as a dominant nation; the Saik may become a solitary school again and thus, not care about the goings on of the Aspect Emperor. The question becomes, how much control does Kellhus intend to wield over the Three Seas "improper?" view post
Maybe not. During his discussion with Seswatha in Dagliash, Seswatha was trying to convince him that he wasn't the "man" he turned out to be; that he could be "good" again despite his atrocities. This may suggest that Mekeretrig had a change of heart sometime between discovering the Ark and his meeting with Seswatha in Dagliash; at which point he was back on the Dark Side because he's an Erratic and thus can't help himself. view post
Can I just say that I loved this analogy from the first time I read it and haven't stopped doing so. I especially loved it when the Pshukari, closed with the Spires and taught them a thing or two about sorcery. Even Kellhus found himself pressed for survival during this battle with the last five Pshukari. Had they employed Wards during their battle with him I'm not so sure he'd still be alive. view post
A Cisharum from Nilnamesh, since we don't know of any schools in Zeum. I chose the Cisharum because I can see myself better through their "eyes" than cognitive schoolmen. So why, you ask, wouldn't I simply be Fanim? Because if I had the chance, I'd wager that my back could bare a lot of water. 
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Unfortunately, we all know that that will not be the case. The Whore (of Fate) has a way of degrading him for the greater good. Circumstance will compel him to "treat" with Kellhus again, and prudence and the big picture will require him to do it as a servant instead of as the savior he is meant to be (and will be); remember Seswatha, who was no less than the world's savior the first time around was in the same position. He never got any recognition for all he did and yet he's the only reason Earwa continues to spin. Achamian will have to kneel subserviantly before Kellhus to stand defiantly against Tsurumah. view post
While in a religion debate, you quote Prothathis:
"All heaven can't shine through one crack."
And then have to remember to say that it's a quote from one of your favorite authors and not an ancient philosopher... like I almost did. 
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Yes, but what about the unconquered parts of the Three Seas. Is he going to play "colonialist?" Sansor, Kutnarmu and Cingulat are soverign and primarily Pagan (non-Inrithi/Fanim); utterly unbeholden to what is generally considered the Three Seas and yet very much a part of it. view post
I guess I'm the only one that preferred Simas; although I knew the truth about him after reading the first chapter. Irregardless, I found his combination of grandfatherly gentility and shrewd canny admirable to no end. I'd like to have that quality. Akka actually got on my nerves a bit. Too conflicted on matters that require no conflict. How can you have that kind of power and purpose of being and still be so easily affected by the religious? Of all the people in Earwa, save the Dunyain, Mandate Schoomen have the Truth... and the power to back it up! How could he be so wanton? I also liked Zenkappa. I'd like to know more about him, but TWP made it clear that that will never happen. view post
I have yet to understand why the Consult, Nonmen and Inchoroi alike, believe the writings of the Tusk. Each race predates it, so why all of a sudden, when it became a known text to them, did they think it relevant or true? The same goes for sorcerers. If anyone should be an authority on what happens [i:2bk919ug]after[/i:2bk919ug] it would be The Few, and yet they buy into the same crap. I remember Akka saying in TDTCB, "Though faith may die, her sentiments remain," (or something like that) but this is intolerable! Knowledge has a tendency to discourage delusion, and I can think of no knowledge more exhaustive, in the Three Seas, than Mandate knowledge. Even the Nilnameshi seem to have a working "understanding" of the many aspects of the Outside. Scott, did you ever explain why the beliefs of both the Inrithi and the Fanim were so relevant to those three parties: Inchoroi, Nonmen and The Few? Also, I noticed that the Satyothi are green-eyed. Very cool! Can you give us any information about their culture and whether or not they have a school among them? Or more importantly, give a crash-course understanding of thier philosophical beliefs, like you did for the Nilnameshi in WP.[/i] view post
Um, I based that statement off of the entry in the book:
"But Kellhus's Wards were failing, cracked and shattered by tempests of unholy light. No more Gnostic lines glittered out to assail the hanging Cishaurim. And Proyas realized that Kellhus could not win, that he could only cry out Wards lest he be swept away. That it was only a matter of time."
Hadn't Kellhus had to ability to teleport, he'd have died then and there. You could have sixteen inutterals and sixteen more utterals if you wanted, it wouldn't do you any good against the Indara-Kishauri. Their craft isn't based no cognition, it's based on an empathic awareness and relationship with the Outside/God. The greater the relationship, the more powerful the soul. That's why I was so moved by the Cishaurim, theirs is a power that goes beyond mere sorcery. I don't know what you would call them, but it's clear that they were more. RIP Waterbearers. 
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Ah, but this is where I disagree mon frere. Depending upon what POV you are judging from, the matter can swing either way. If you're looking at it from a ordinary Earwans perspective then any medium that edits or manipulates reality by way of the esoterics is sorcery. If you are, however, a practioner of such crafts, a theologian, or a philosopher you are likely to come away with a different opinion. Sorcery is largely based on meanings. Granted metaphysics is an important variable but by and large sorcery requires a cognitive approach. Given that fact I don't think that the Pshuke, in it's purest sense, can be considered sorcery. Though it can be augmented or used to sorcerous ends, see Moenghus, it almost completely lacks a cognitive approach. This, I think, is why Akka mentioned once that he wasn't even sure that the Pshuke could be considered sorcery; neither it's intellectual approach nor its metaphysical approach follows the basic rules of what is commonly recognized as sorcery by sorcerers and/or other speculators in-the-know. view post
Why would he have to "take her" to protect her from the slaughter that occured int the desert. Serwe is the one that had to be carried out of the Carathay, not Esmenet. Could he not have protected her without stealing her from his teacher. Note: When you purposely seduce someone to draw their mind away from they significant other it's stealing. The "fact" that Akka was "dead" is irrelevant. view post
And yet they are willing to close the world to the Outside. Why if not for fear of the "truth" of the scriptures? view post
Beautifully said Curethan. And I agree with you too EE. Both your statements work toward my point. The cognitive crafts are limited to the intellect of the user; to the mind. The channlers are limited only by the strength and dept of their souls. It, theoretically, makes them limitless. This is what I meant by the Psuke being more than "mere sorcery." Just my two ensolarri. view post
They have extremely long penises... seriously. I forget how many feet but I think it's like 8 to 10. Secondly this conversation is sinking fast, how about we give the free-falling sex talk a rest hmm? view post
Is that sarcasm I sense... very well let me try again.
Were I in Akka's shoes I'd... uh....
Oh hell, who am I kidding I'd never be in Akka's shoes. I'm not that emotionally weak (as he was before the end) and I'm too selfish to put the world first and my anger second. The Spires would have burned as soon as I reached Caraskand, the "prophet" would burn soon after, that whore-wife of mine would choke on my... um, you get the idea, and the world would be f*cked!; Apocolypse be damned!
When you think about it, Scott simply had to write Akka as a weak person from the beginning otherwise the book would be TOTALLY different; many people would die early on. Geshrunni for threatening me, Proyas for provoking me, Esmi for boning other men, the entire Thousand Temples for killing Inrau (which is what I would have thought), and possibly Conphas and Xerius for being insolent. Then again, I probably would have died early on too. Can't possibly destroy the Thousand Temples, too many Chorae plus Conryia would be on my arse. 
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I fear it's an inconsistency, which really irks me because it's a big one. view post
[quote="Entropic_existence":368cdxwb]An inconsistency in the same book? I dunno, I can't really see it and not one that big. I'm thinking there is an actual explanation for it such as either the person who talked about seeing souls was a)not telling the truth or b)mistaken. Perhaps it is not really souls they see. Anyway as I said at the first of this thread it would probably a good question to ask Scott himself.[/quote:368cdxwb] Hopefully neither of those is the case since it was Scott who said they see souls. I'll post the question and see what happens. view post
Sorry for posting an entirely new thread for this one question but... If what the Cisharum "see" are souls, as you mentioned some time ago Scott, why can't all of them see the skin spies? Or can they? I ask because Kellhus presumed that Moenghus discovered them by noticing a peculiarity in the timbre of their voices. Was Kellhus mistaken? If not, then that takes me back to the first question. Thanks in advance. view post
1. Kellhus is "marked". Akka commented on it in TTT. 2. The Pshuke is largely inaccessible to Dunyain Few. 3. Cognitive sorcery recalls the god's mind not his voice. 4. Kellhus DID rip out his heart. Scott never said the statement was wrong just confusing. He ALSO ripped out Serwe's. To recap the removal of his own heart, read the musings of Eleazares in the beginning of TTT. I have yet to understand why this is so difficult for people to grasp. Tribal peoples from South America and Africa have been temporaily removing their inner organs for quite some time, though the reasoning for it is lost to me; irregardless, it's not new. Scott just took it to the next level and made the removal permanent. view post
[quote="Warrior-Poet":38h02qci]Umm how exactly is Seswatha a shaman? A shaman is a Prophet who practices sorcery Seswatha was just the Grandmaster of the Sohonc not a prophet at all.[/quote:38h02qci] He meant Celmomas. Also... [quote="n0g0d":38h02qci]"Because you're a pious man born to a world unable to fathom your piety. But all that changes with me. Akka. The old revelations have outlived the age of their intention, and I have come to reveal the new. I am the Shortest Path, and I say that you are not damned." [/quote:38h02qci] Kellhus was just lying when he said this. I mean... it's not really a lie, it's just deceiving. Kellhus is suggesting that HE is the reason Akka is not damned as supposed to the fact that Akka wasn't damned to begin with; sorcery does not a sinner make. view post
[quote="avatar_of_existence":ni1hlm83]what about his 'final swazond'? Pride and Shame! If Cnaiur is Scylvendi, then Cnaiur is dead.[/quote:ni1hlm83] Cnaiur isn't Scylvendi anymore. He is free, remember. There is no thought he cannot think, no act he will not commit. He, much like Kellhus to the Three Seas, is beyond our ability to predict. He is conditionally unconditioned; a self moving soul. The product of extensive Dunyain exposure and insanity. How beautifully ironic that he's accomplished what the Dunyain have been trying to for millenia. view post
[quote="Primal":12gzkwzr][quote:12gzkwzr]As regards his sorcerous powers, certainly it is not yet mature - he is unpractised and inexperienced though possessed of enormous potential. Achamian himself said that he (A) would have been able to overcome him (K) as a sorceror; and the Cishaurim primaries in concert were apparently more than his match on the occasion above. Doubtless Kellhus' sorcerours power will develop in the next few years under Mandate teaching - to the extent of surpassing his teachers (the Mandate quorum, as Achamian had warned them, are in for some interesting times).[/quote:12gzkwzr] The scene you were referring to with Achamian saying he would have been able to overcome him: this was before Achamian started teaching him actual cants, before Kellhus spoke with Seswatha. Also, that battle against the Cishaurim already confirmed Kellhus's power. It is true that he will become more powerful. [quote:12gzkwzr][/quote:12gzkwzr][/quote:12gzkwzr] Actually this is incorrect. Aurang attacked Kellhus the same day Xinemus died. Recall that Kellhus had to use a Ward to protect himself from the lustful cants Aurang used. Akka refused to report to the Umbilica to be de-briefed on the Consult's attack BECAUSE of Xin's death which is when Kellhus went to find him and the event occurred. Kellhus had long since spoken with Seswatha by the time Xinemus died. Also, it was once Akka hit the ground that he began canting noting that he could take Kellhus "STILL," suggesting that despite what Akka had already taught him he wasn't powerful enough to kill Achamian yet. You are correct that that will change very soon; especially with the Mandate Grandmaster as his new teacher. view post
What prophecy did Seswatha make? It's called the CELMOMIAN prophecy, not the Seswathan Prophecy. Seswatha never prophecied anything! Also the definition of Shaman predates Seswatha. It was used to describe apostates in Eanna who discovered and practiced sorcery. view post
I don't know if this has been said yet in this very long post but, when I think of Tsurumah, I think of Ciphrang. He is summoned from the Outside like the Ciphrang. His mere existence is anithetical to life (see Womb Plague) like Zioz was to the grass and general vegetation of the grounds on which he stood as he battled Achamian at the end of TTT. Akka mentioned that Zioz was no ordinary demon; that the Ciphrang's mark was like concentrated light. What am I getting at? I think Tsurumah is an Avatar or spirit so old and "aware" that it might as well be an Avatar, however Avatar's are basically low-level gods (Demi-God) which explains why he is considered a god by his followers. I guess we need to define what a "god" is. view post
[quote="Warrior-Poet":2i1stjow]I still like to think that he is sensitive to the chorae which is one reason why he is encased in the carapace.[/quote:2i1stjow] Indeed, that's what I assumed was to be understood when I first read it. Also as Anor pointed out, I don't think Mog is a demon per se, but a vary inherently malignent entity of that likeness; the anti-avatar perhaps? Whatever, I just wonder if what Kellhus said about Mog being angry at the Consult for failiing the first time is true... I doubt it. view post
I've not been able to figure out the Nilnameshi yet. They are dark skinned but not Satyothi (Zeumi) so they aren't "black". I was, in fact, recently lamenting the apparent lack of Asians and South Americans in Earwa, but maybe the Nilnameshi represent one of these; most likely the natives South America. Either that or Pacific Islanders, which would satisfy the Asian exclusion. view post
With regards to religion, I thought it was understood that they were Pagans. Especially after the discussion between Moenghus and Kellhus. As well as the conversation between Akka and Kellhus when Akka thinks to himself that Kellhus is speaking "Nilnameshi foolishness" with regards to his views on metaphysics. Did I create that out of thin air? view post
Ah, I see. However I do remember Akka saying "pagan Nilnamesh" at some point; or rather [i:gxl0cdt9]thinking[/i:gxl0cdt9] it. I think it was in WP though I'll have to check when I get a chance. Obviously the word "pagan" wouldn't have the same meaning to Earwa as it does to us. Thanks for the other info though. view post
That doesn't make you Dunyain. Being Dunyani is more than superior intellect and strength/reflexes, it's a genetic inheritance. The Dunyain have spent the better part of two millenia in the process of selective breeding. Interrupting that process with a specimen (woman) outside of the selective community means that you lose half of the capabilities that are inherent to that communities offspring. Yes the Dunyain's child will be stronger, faster, and smarter than the average world-born child due to the genetic superiority of the father (as well as the extensive training the child will receive) but the kid will never be a true Dunyain; no amount of training is going to change that. view post
[quote="Randal":194bzk12]Methinks you've missed Akka's lessons. He's conflicted, he doubts, because he has seen where the belief you have the only "truth" leads one. He doubts because he knows that certitude only stems from ignorance. His dreams have no validity in and of themselves. They prove no more than Proyas or Inrau's religious fervour does. If he believed his point of view was the only valid one, and used the power of the Mandate to enforce that claim, he'd be as bad as the people he despises. He'd be as bad as the holy war.[/quote:194bzk12] I never said anything about him possessing the ONLY truth or the only VALID truth, I simply noted that he, as a Mandate Schoolmen, has a grasp on the truth. Nor did I suggest that having the truth should put one in a position to dominate others. Thankfully, attaining the truth (or should I say A TRUTH) doesn't require such behavior. Doubt is useful when used correctly but he uses it as a crutch, not a way to check his fervor. And he has NO excuse to be wanton with regards to religion. This is what puzzled me throughout the entire series. How can they know so much but still believe in the Tusk. Foolishness... rank foolishness! view post
I hope I can help. 1.) Yes, the chorae has to touch either the sorcery and/or the sorcerer to be effective, as such, armor and a helmet would do sorcerers a great service in battle. In fact I've been wondering why they don't wear amor under their robes. 2.) Biblical reference obviously. Remember there are a lot of parallels to history and other fiction in these books. 4.) Scott said he hasn't thought that far out yet. 5.) Okay here's my understanding on why the gnosis is inherently more powerful than the anagoges. The anagogic craft requires detours to come into fruition; burning [i:anry35n4]by way of[/i:anry35n4] dragon fire. Whereas the gnosis has the understanding of fire [i:anry35n4]in and of itself[/i:anry35n4]. To say, as Akka has, that sorcery is based on meanings is to say that it is based on understanding/awareness. You understand the law of gravity in a layman's manner but a physicist has a far more profound understanding/awareness of it than you... same difference with sorcery. The gnosis is the accumulation of a deeper understanding and/or awareness of the properties of the world. 6.) My theory on the salting of "unmarked" sorcerers is that it's not the "mark" that attracts the unraveling properties of chorae but something deeper. The question is what? Because, like you said, Pshukari salt just as readily as cognitive sorcerers and they (Pshukari) don’t' bare the mark. AFTERTHOUGT: Who said Pshukari don't bare the mark? Is it not possible that they [b:anry35n4]do[/b:anry35n4] bare the mark but that it is not visible to cognitive sorcerers due to the different way they access the "god"? view post
He was joking. Although I think Gilgoal (sp?) should be replaced with Cnaiur when the barbarian dies. The G-man couldn't possibly have been as bad-ass as the Utemot Chieftan. view post
There is also the fact that the glossary is the work of Achamian whose knowledge of the Scylvendi is limited to historical accounts of their involvement in the Apocalypse. Outside of that he knows little about the Steepe, much like the rest of the Three Seas... sans the Nansur and the northern Kianene. view post
[quote="Warrior-Poet":1zb8lvzb]I don't think anyone knows since Scott has abandoned us for a bit and is busy with Neuropath,but to make a guess im gonna say its going to be awhile like late this year or even next year.[/quote:1zb8lvzb] If it comes around that soon I'll do a friggin back-flip! I'm not even going to delude myself into thinking I'll see it anytime before 2008. Although he may be merciful and have it published for Canada in the Fall/Winter of '07. view post
Okay, I was looking for something else but came across this passage. I remember being puzzled about this when I first read the book but it didn't stick given all the events that followed, but now that I have the time... can someone (preferably Scott) answer this question for me? [b:72ahpxcx]The Question:[/b:72ahpxcx] What just happened here? [b:72ahpxcx]The Passage That Inspired The Question:[/b:72ahpxcx] NOTICE THE UNDERLINED PORTION ESPECIALLY. [quote:72ahpxcx]"Yet again he found himself at war with the urge to flee. Of all the unclean spirits, few were as terrifying or bloodthristy as those belonging to dread Disease. Pulma had possessed him, the physician-priests had said, one of the most fearsome of Akkeagni's innumerable demons. The lung-plague. The Marshal jerked and convulsed. He arched across his cot as though his body were a bow taken up and drawn by something unseen. He made noises that could only be described as... unmanly. [u:72ahpxcx]Achamian clutched his bearded cheek, whispered words he could not recall afterward[/u:72ahpxcx]. Then just as abruptly, Xinemus went slack. Once again his limbs were lost between the folds of his blankets."[/quote:72ahpxcx] Looks to me like Akka may be tapping into some power that he doesn't even know he's capable of. view post
[quote="Kidruhil Lancer":2vyvyogs]So, I work at a hotel. And I just finished checking in a guy who's in the marine core. Now, we do give lower rates to active military. The rate that I quoted, however, didn't seem good enough for this gentleman. So, he gives me this line. "Come on, I know you got a lower rate for a guy who's been to Iraq twice." My question is... Why should a soldier who 1) volunteered, and 2) isn't fighting a necessary war get special treatment? I respect that he's a member of the military, and I even respect that he's seen combat. I just don't feel that going to Iraq entitles him to any special treatment above and beyond what a normal military officer gets who [b:2vyvyogs]hasn't[/b:2vyvyogs] gone to Iraq. It would be different if Iraq had attacked us, or if we were fighting for our lives, but neither of these is true. We didn't even have a good reason for going into Iraq. Even if Sadam HAD weapons of mass destruction.. so do several other countries who don't like us. The treatment of the Iraqi's isn't even a good reason when you take into account the much worse treatment of African people in the war-lord ruled countries like Somalia. Anyway, I just wanted to get some opinions/reactions to this.[/quote:2vyvyogs] I'm curious to know how you responded to that statement. Personally I'm all for giving soldiers (especially combat soldiers) special treatment when they return home and I think the fact that he volunteered for the service is fantastic! I do however feel that things get shady when you consider the fact that this war in particular is rather unnecessary (IMO). Maybe he [i:2vyvyogs]was[/i:2vyvyogs] just fishing for a bargain, but there are those, [b:2vyvyogs]who didn't see combat[/b:2vyvyogs], that actually expect you to all but worship them because of their contribution. Rest assured that it is appreciated... more or less, but I do feel that the complications regarding why we're there are hard to brush aside altogether so that we can show proper respect. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I agree with you but I don't think we get to choose what wars we give our soldiers special treatment for. If we give special treatment at all, and I think we should, then it has to be across-the-board. view post
That's because you're a self-centered, egotistical, uber-liberal hippie whose secretly funding terrorism!
I say we bomb Sokar [b:112ouvhd]and[/b:112ouvhd] his adulturate nation and spend the next decade implementing a modern, civilized nation where everyone, subsequently, aspires to be as great as the U.S.!
And though I have a few of family members currently serving in various branches of the armed forces (one in Iraq, one in Afghanistan and one on border patrol in Texas) no, I don't have anyone "close" to me serving in the military. Why do you ask?
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I'd sue for defamation of the holy scripture... the PON series that is. view post
[b:wnbge9w8]BRILLIANT![/b:wnbge9w8]
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I always assumed it was before. Their "falling from the black" as Aurang put it, didn't strike me as intentional. view post
Most fascinating! Any suggestable reading for a lay-person on getting a basic understanding of quantum mechanics; I've always been interested and have browsed a few sights on the subject but anything in too much detail always gives me a headache. view post
I LOVE the names and I never had a problem with any of them. Apparently I'm weird. I thought Cnaiur's name being pronounced with a silent "C" was obvious; but again I'm in the minority. I also liked Kascamanadri, Hermananu Eleazaras, Cememketri, Skalateas, Athjeari, Seokti, Anasurimbor (which I wish was Ananasurimbor; I prefer the names to be as long as possible) and the like. I also like the fact that Achamian is a derivative of Achaminaed (sp?); ancient King of Persia... if I remember correctly. I didn't like the Greek-ish names: Triamis, Xerius, Xinemus, Sarcellus. view post
[quote="gierra":1bkqlp53]still, even if ignorance and enlightenment are only effects, you can still choose to enlighten yourself, or to remain ignorant. or vice versa.[/quote:1bkqlp53] Maybe, but something in me balks at that idea. If you're talking about someone choosing to be ignorant of the conflict(s) in the Middle East or the energy crisis then yes, one can choose ignorance over "enlightenment" or vice versa. But I was under the impression that when we say "knowledge of the world" we aren't speaking with regards to those trivialities but rather to an awareness of the "nature of man" itself. I'm not so sure that such awareness of the world is a choice, per se. Those kinds of people have always struck me as being inherently aware of the world around them (the nature of man); after a certain age that is. It's as if observation is a gift given them that can't be returned or disregarded. Their ability to see the truths of human nature seem more a curse-from-birth than a quality honed through years of education and contemplation; that stuff comes afterward... if they're lucky. Does that make any sense? OH, and I've contemplated this a few times before already... I choose awareness/knowledge. view post
[quote="alhana":3ez0d6kb]
As a female reader, I find nothing offensive about Bakker's references to the female characters or to his references to phallic symbols. Maybe I am just too navie to get worked up over a few penises.[/quote:3ez0d6kb]
Tee-hee, Alhana said penises.
[quote="alhana":3ez0d6kb]
I suppose if one took this analogy far enough, one could find examples of "he-man woman hating" and "homoerotic references" in primer books for children. "Oh look, Dick is holding a stick. This author must be making a homosexual reference" "Oh Jane fell down and hurt her knee. This author must be saying that girls are weak and cry all the time."
It takes a small brain to get stuck on the words on the page. Elite readers appreciated skillful writing and can see the whole story for all of the glorious details.[/quote:3ez0d6kb]
<Inclines head to Alhana the Younger's wisdom>
Beautifully said dear. Beautifully said.
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I'm going to assume that no one, including Sessa, has ever done any healing or otherwise "good" thing with the Gnosis. In fact I remember Akka thinking to himself that for all the might and ingenuity of the Gnosis, those "brilliant flurries of light" always go "in the wrong direction"; which is to say, they can accomplish nothing more than destruction.
Now we know better, of course, but they don't live in a world where they have the time or opportunity to think of the practical (non violent) uses of thier craft.
Irregardless, my point is that I don't think Seswatha had anything to do with this moment. This was Akka tapping into something unknown... unintentionally. Ironically, it was his emotions that sparked this phenomena, not his intellect; which of course makes me think of the Cishaurim (RIP Waterbearers 
).
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[quote="Zarathinius":2jl2hyhd]
Confucius sits nearby, chatting with Lao-Tzu (in Chinese, of course). In keeping with their philosophies, neither disrupts the natural Tao of The Bar.
[/quote:2jl2hyhd]
Except that Lao Tzu couldn't stand Confucius. No self-respecting Taoist could. But yes, they would keep to themselves and that's why I love ancient Chinese philosophy.
Oh, and to add to the story.
Then Marcus Aurelius would walk into the room, kill everyone on the sharp end of his sword, and then write a book of woe about why his life is so tumultuous and impart the importance of making peace not war.
And you thougt your Greek was cool.
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[quote="Harrol":pcddqul0]I read most of the posts here already and felt the need to add my two cents. Forgive me if my write up is not as well thought out as Randall, Peter or Will. According to my beliefs God created both good and He created evil. That is stated in the book of Isaiah. From a non philisophical stand point good is good because God defines it as such and evil is evil again because God said so. I do dissagree with the thought that God does these things based off of whims. God is not whimsical at all. Another thought is if God is good then why is there evil. My understanding is that God does not want automatons but people who choose Him and His ways willingly.[/quote:pcddqul0]
Only to get pissed and start damning people to "the bad place" when they don't choose him; doesn't sound very "good" to me. Although if he's the one doing all the defining then... double-think anyone? (I love George Orwell )
I always balk at this kind of discussion because it seems to become circular in and of itself... althought my intellect probably isn't "up-to-snuff" with the rest of yours so maybe that's why. 
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Well said, I read it as it was intended as well. view post
[quote="gierra":gya90gkb]you're probably both right. sometimes i don't know if i'm mean spirited or just sarcastic.
[/quote:gya90gkb]
Sarcasm is - almost always - mean spirited; that's half the fun of it! Master practioners of jnan have no problem interpreting the meaning of such statements...
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[quote:318uteh2]I was wiki'ing some of the terms used in tPON and I thought the definition for Heresiarch was kind of interesting. According to Wikipedia, a heresiarch is more or less the leader of a heretical movement. Modern usage of this word in particular associates 'heretical' as being opposed to the Roman Catholic church. With numerous parallels being drawn throughout tPON relating the Inrithi factions with western Christian terms and connecting the Fanim to more Islamic and Arabic terminology (such as 'crusade' for the Inrithi and 'jihad' for the Fanim, or even the respective geographies and appearances of the two factions), I thought it was very subtle that Scott would give the leader of the 'heathen' Cishaurim such a fitting title. Has anyone else noticed other words used in tPON series that are more than they seem at first glance?[/quote:318uteh2] I can only think of one. Achaemenes - Founder and King of Achaemenid Dynsaty of Ancient Persia It is my assumption that Achamian's name was derived from this guy. view post
A [b:25y4qo4n]very[/b:25y4qo4n] good observation! If I didn't know any better, I'd suggest that morality is an "outside" force/agent dedicated to seeing itself served and punishes, through simple cause and effect, those who don't. view post
I love your enthusiasm. It reminds me of the way I felt after I finished the book. I'm sure we can trust Scott to do justice to the first trilogy by making the second just as... extraordinary! And a big whoop to Akka for kicking that second Ciphrang's butt! If you ask me, there's no better way to train for the war against Tsurumah than by having to battle a couple of uber-powered Ciphrang from time to time! view post
I suppose you're right but let's see how it panned out. Akka still has the use of all his limbs (albeit injured limbs) and the ability to work sorcery and live out his life freely. The Ciphrang, on the other hand, is dead. This battle reminds me of Cnaiur's first Scylvendi test to go and kill a wolf. He succeeded, but you will recall that he was all bent out of shape over the fact that nothing happened as it should. Moenghus basically told him that regardless of how things went, the goal was acheived; he killed the wolf. So Akka got his butt kicked, who cares! He's alive and the Ciphrang is dead. Besides it's not like the Ciphrang had a landslide victory, he only lived long enough to exult in Akka's unconscious state. HE, on the other hand, DIED immediately after. So when you look at the big picture, who lost? view post
Well if you want to get down to the BIG picture... Seswatha won. The Gnosis has been shared in ample time for the war, he's found a new vehicle in which to move through Earwa - (Akka), and the world will be prepared for the Consult this time without all the haggling he went through the first time because of his deeds and sacrifice. view post
It is my (wishful) presumption that the new version of the dreams are only seen by Akka. It is my thought that Kellhus would be able to infer its' meaning if the other Mandati were having them and that would ruin the surprise. That's what I meant by that statement. If my assumption proves correct, Akka is Seswatha's last true disciple/student. view post
Thing is, I don't think he removed any barriers on purpose. In fact I'm not certain he removed any at all. There could be another reason Akka's dreams (or at least that one) are changing. Though it does seem most likely that Kellhus's little meeting with Sessa may have created a portal to the Outside by which Seswatha can work through Achamian. On the other hand, I think Scott is trying to go in a different direction. He's hinted at it enough times now. I think he intends for Akka to go [i:xunwr3n3]beyond[/i:xunwr3n3] Seswatha. Which, necessarily, nullifies the likelihood of my assumption. Who knows. view post
How? Akka is out of her reach. view post
[quote="alhana":2exuy4d4]I do not think her redemption will mean she can be Akka's wife. I know he is out of her reach, but there might be other actions she can take to make things right in the end.[/quote:2exuy4d4] Okay, so now my question is..."what do you mean by redemption? What would that entail? view post
Okay, I thought Serwe was the focus point of any possible "female bashing". I mean, come on! Istriya was great; intelligent, beautiful, shrewd and hysterical in dialogue. Esmi's intelligent, beautiful, insightful, contemplative and very funny as well. What's Serwe? Beautiful? Yes Intelligent? No Shrewd? No Insightful? No Funny? No Contemplative? No I mean. She's the quintessential "dumb blond"! Esmi and Istryia don't come close. view post
Ironically, I think she has a better chance of reaching her Alhana-esque potential as the wife of Kellhus than she would have as the wife of Achamian. It's not because Akka doesn't see her as an equal - we know he does - but rather that Akka is/was still very much a world-born man. Customs, especially those we are born to, are EXTREMELY hard to see past. They define us... to a degree. Not only would Akka not likely have been proactive enough to teach Esmi to read, but she would never have asked. The tread of society is too well worn into each of them. It simply wouldn't have crossed either of their minds to go there unless circumstance absolutely required it. It would take someone virtually alien to 'society' to see beyond such customs to do... what can or should be done. Now that Esmi knows the truth of Kellhus, I think she will come to a place similar to that one you just described Alhana. It's almost inevitable. Kellhus's constant insight and promotion of the evovled psychological-self will have a greater affect on none more than Esmi... save her child perhaps. view post
Not necessarily. Knowledge of the truth [of Kellhus] makes it impossible to be a pawn. She will instead be a willing accomplise (sp) because she believes in his purpose; just like he now does. He will explain the need to mislead the masses to her, and being the strong woman she is, she will not only understand but be better able to assist to that end. It's the WORLD that's at risk here. Remember that Esmi was the wife of a Mandate Schoolman for a time; she'll understand the concept of "necessary evil". view post
I totally didn't take that line to mean anything sexual! I took it as the slave's crossing of a definitive line. Even after Serwe screamed at Cnaiur that Kellhus told her that Cnauir f****ked Moenghus, I took it to be a mis-type. I thought Scott meant to write, "Just like Moenghus f***ked you!" - which would mean something completely different. I guess the main reason I was able to maintain this line of thought was because Cnaiur himself was surprised when he found-out from Bannut that everyone thought he was Moenghus's lover. He was genuinely shocked! - but I guess that was the insanity taking over. Oh well, at least I knew that Simas was a skin-spy from the first book and you all didn't know until the last. HA HA! view post
As an aside, I always sympathized with Haggar (sp?). She was totally screwed over (as was Ishmael). It was Sarah's suggestion that Abe take a cocubine in the FIRST PLACE. Then when she has a baby, she just sends the poor concubine into the desert to die? - with her BABY! Bitch. view post
To be a success I must achieve: 1. Spiritual clarity and certainty 2. Psychological stability (as in becoming a self-moving soul in as much as is possible... to quote a familiar author) 3. Maintaining life-long friends - staying away from superfluous "friends" 4. Being financially stable The family thing doesn't really come-up for me. Now I'm stuck wondering why, since it's obviously a staple for the average person. view post
If I may, your Majesties, this is hysterical!
Like Gierra, I hadn't paid the little words under our names much attention until reading TDTCB a second time. That's when I noticed that Eleazares was a Sub-Didact when Sashoeka was assasinated. That's when I started looking up the words I didn't know. It turns out that Peralogue isn't even a recognized word; I had to search out the roots. It seems the lower three of us are little more than instructors... and not the fun kind either.
OH! - and no, I can't say that I much regard the classifications, but then... I take my pills regularly.
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I'm sickened by the very thought. The man looked on the boy (young man) as a son. Someone to be instructed and tempered, not... view post
[quote="alhana":252r0kuu]We have Mahaj on our side too!!!! She was around here somewhere...she must haven been silenced by the upper eschelon of the ranks!!!!
Fine..I will be silent..for now...but I go seething in righteous fury and waiting the time when I become a sub-dictate and bring change and order to the New Forum!!!!!!!
[/quote:252r0kuu]
Um, I'm a boy... ur, man... kinda. And sorry for missing the fight but I was abducted in the middle of the night. By the time I woke up, our side had surrendered. Now... can someone please tell me why I'm experiencing severe pain in my rectum?
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[quote="Incu-Pacifico":q9il9brd]There are a couple of hints that Kellus isn't quite your typical Dunyain. I remember the scene in "The Darkness That Comes Before" where he sits staring at nature all day long, marveled by it's beauty. Either that's an early slip-up by Bakker, or it's a hint that Kellus isn't quite as robotic as his Dunyain brethren. Perhaps he was "corrupted" before he even left Ishual.[/quote:q9il9brd] I got the impression that that was the affect of not having travelled beyond the largely "conditioned" grounds of Ishual. The utter lack of order, the new species, and the sheer wonder of nature has a similar (though far less intense) affect on ordinary people from "the big city" all the time; consider then, the implications for a Dunyain. Moenghus probably went through the same thing. It's just a stage in the process of leaving Ishual, IMO. Eventually, Kellhus got over it and sought shelter from the rain/elements... and was back to this old self. On the subject at hand though, I think he's both grown and become less since he left Ishual. The reason, of course, is that what "came before" in his case is not something he could "own" (the prophecy). He was predestined; a most irritating fact for a Dunyain... ..and apparently for some of us too. So many of us continue to look on the matter through he eyes of a religious person instead of objectively. So the "haloes" and his surviving Umiaki simply HAVE to mean he is the "savior." And the fact/possibility that he shares those beliefs is what makes him a little "broken"/less than a Dunyain. You can't be objective AND be the vessel of [a] "god" at the same time. Spirituality, which is what a personal realtionship with a diety is, requires a certain amount of (blind) faith. He is more and he is less... than a Dunyain; and that's why I think he is going to be an even cooler character in the next two books. view post
[quote="Stephen":153ry1so][quote="Twayleph":153ry1so]Blasting though mountains using sorcery is, I'm sure, a reference to the historical use of dynamite, yet I think there is a fundamental difference between the two. Dynamite had to be created by specialists, but it could be used by trained workers (I believe ; I'm not too savvy on the subject). We have seen a few sorcerous artefacts, but in the main I think only sorcerers themselves can wield the full devastating effect of sorcery, which means they would have to do all the work themselves.[/quote:153ry1so][/quote:153ry1so]
Once I blast the mountain you can fashion the rock into whatever you want. You don't need sorcery for that.
[quote:153ry1so]This is a good point, but given the immense military and economic value of a good road, it's hard to imagine [i:153ry1so]some[/i:153ry1so] government not finding a way to make it worth a sorcery school's while to help out. (Maybe the Ceneian Empire used sorcerers; they had their own School, did they not?)[/quote:153ry1so]
The Saik I thought. Maybe not.
[quote:153ry1so]I think sorcerers are far too proud to submit themselves to public works. As for using them to communicate at a distance, well we have seen examples of this in TWP (the communication between Xerius and Skauras) and in TTT as the Nansur and the Men of the Tusk used sorcerers to communicate with the homeland. I would think it's not widespread because :
1) they are proud - if you can chose between summoning dragons and serving as a human radio emitter, which would you do ?[/quote:153ry1so]
[quote:153ry1so]I don't know -- how much money is there in summoning dragons? 
More seriously, greed often serves to overcome arrogance.[/quote:153ry1so]
Which is how we got the Mysunsai.
[quote:153ry1so]3) sorcerers tend to serve their own interests first of all, as demonstrated by the existence of Schools[/quote:153ry1so]
[quote:153ry1so]And enlightened self-interest would be more than capable of finding opportunities of mutual benefit, I should think.[/quote:153ry1so]
Again, the Mysunsai.
[quote:153ry1so]4) the use of sorcery in battle, as we've seen, is so exceedingly important that it tends to trump other considerations.[/quote:153ry1so]
[quote:153ry1so]Well, in all fairness, battle tends to trump [i:153ry1so]all[/i:153ry1so] civic engineering projects, not just sorcerously-driven ones.[/quote:153ry1so]
Mysunsai anyone? They may do some of these "civil" tasks of which you speak in as much as their knowledge of the Agnogies (sp?) allows.
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Wow. No that's not what I was trying to say at all. <damn you brain> Sorry I tend jumble my meanings. I was trying to say that his belief in his predestination as the harbringer seems to be taking-on on a more religious tint (as per his conversation with Moenghus). Instead of looking at the matter objectively - (that he has been commisioned by a higher power(s) to stand against the Consult) - he's taken the "halo situation" to the next level and started to think of himself as something relative to the prohphet he's lied to the Earwans about being. He's started to show signs of having "blind faith" which means he's slowly losing the objectivity that made it possible for him to conquer half a continent. He'll never be ordinary, of course, but if he goes too far with this manner of thought, I can see how he will (unwittingly) become Mog's accomplise instead of his adversary. What was Scott's quote? - The more certain we are, the more certain we are to be deceived. (or something like that) view post
[quote="anor277":1ca7k5f9]I do acknowledge that Achamian could yet prove useful to Kellhus. But I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the other matter. When Achamian renounced the Mandate, he renounced Seswatha as much as he was able. Seswatha was no doubt a terrible old man, one who certainly put his aims before any individual (cf Xin. or Nau-Cayuti) or any moral imperative and one who had (rightly) earned A's condemnation. [i:1ca7k5f9]edited for extra points[/i:1ca7k5f9][/quote:1ca7k5f9] I STRONGLY disagree with this. I don't view Akka's defection from the Mandate (and certainly not his schism with Kellhus) to have any bearing on his relationship with Seswatha. It was only alluded to in the last half of TTT, but I think the relationship between Akka and Sessa will be of a higher "grade" than that of any other Mandati. Besides, you don't need to be associated with a faction to oppose the Consult or venerate an Ascendant (i.e. Seswatha). view post
Indeed. As Akka said, "what he said was to naked [i:2uyji2v3]not[/i:2uyji2v3] to be true" - or something to that affect (although Akka was talking about Cnaiur at the time... you get the point). All the signs point to him finally accepting his destiny as the harbringer. I'm not sure if he thinks of himself as a "prophet" per se, but he does seem to be adopting a thought-pattern not too far removed from such. How that will lead to him (unwittingly) assisting Mog instead of fighting him is a bit difficult to explain. Give me a moment. view post
[quote="Harrol":1mc07u01]Yes Gierra if you can find a virgin you can have one too. By the way clean up the dog poop please! This is a public forum and it needs to be kept clean.[/quote:1mc07u01]
And this thread is in the "Philosophy Discussion" category why?
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Which is why "nothing passed between them" when they stared into one anothers' faces. It was [i:xlyyf7dq]almost[/i:xlyyf7dq] like staring into the face of another Dunyain or Cnaiur when he was on the beach; there was nothing in either man to read. I think Akka has an even greater capacity for this due to Seswatha's influence. Though he may not make as much use of it as we hope. We [b:xlyyf7dq]are[/b:xlyyf7dq] talking about Akka after all. view post
I felt the exact same way when I read it oh so many moons ago. But it serves it's purpose. And not just for the storyline but for her personal development. Consider it a growing pain... for both of you. view post
What are the psychological affects of forum rankings? Just observe this thread; it makes for a conclusive study. view post
[quote="gierra":rf4mp8o8]-sneezes-[/quote:rf4mp8o8] LMAO!!! This is the funniest post in this thread! view post
[quote="gierra":21tu8v8y][quote="Mahajanga Mordecai":21tu8v8y][quote="gierra":21tu8v8y]-sneezes-[/quote:21tu8v8y] LMAO!!! This is the funniest post in this thread![/quote:21tu8v8y] i dunno man, your reply has me laughing way too loudly.. and i'm at the reception desk.. people are starting to look at me funny.[/quote:21tu8v8y] ROFLMAO! I have to stop coming here. I can't get my work done. Worse yet, one of my managers keeps coming into my cube at the exact moment that I maximize this browser. I think I'm being watched. view post
[quote="Harrol":3h77aj4g]I do not know if anyone else has this problem but I can not read much fantasy anymore after reading the PON series. The only other fantasy writer I enjoy nowadays is G R R Martin. Is there anyone else out there plagued by the same problem?[/quote:3h77aj4g] YES!!! I just entered this realm of literature (a couple of years ago) and was blown away by Scott's work! So I figured - in between each book - that I'd find other fantasy works and be equally riveted... NOT! Not Martin, not Erickson, not Rawn, not... whomever else I've read and either hated or thought little more than Scott-wannabees (despite the fact that Scott is apparently the new kid on the block). I can't read any more of this stuff and like it! Plus I feel very uncomfortable picking up books with dragons, men with flaming swords and scantilly clad women on the cover. I used to make fun of you people... know I'm turning into you - AHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Scott sucks. view post
[quote="Catalyst":36kivuup]4. If all members of the Consult suffer from a memory limit, how is it that they can advance their knowledge of particular areas without losing other memories, which potentially carry knowledge aswell? Thanks![/quote:36kivuup] It's called the "written word". view post
Damn. I was just about to inform you that you are mistaken and that the statement was that a "hallowed" hand struck her not a "haloed hand". But, in fact, it is the latter. Damn. Now I'm confused all over again. Is it possible that we can sum this up to Serwe being delusional? She was, after all, the most deluded person in the book... which is saying a lot given some of the characters. Most notable example: Xerius The man thought himself a "god"... LITERALLY!!!! view post
I was under the impression that they weren't using Wards. It explains everything pretty simply. view post
Why, the god(s) of course. Ever present, watching, "listening;" he was defending his choices to those who dare to judge. view post
Whether or not the Cisharum survived the Spires was utterly irrelevant to Moenghus. All that mattered was the mission: getting his son to Shimeh.
Trutu Angotma I was about to ask the same thing. I've puzzled over it for months but haven't been able to figure it out.
And your right Gravity Gun, Inrau mentioned having discovered something about the Shriah that broke his faith in the man. I recall him thinking, "If only I could forget what the Mandate taught me then this last revelation would mean nothing!" or someting to that effect; which is why I know it has to be sorcery-related...
but it can't be the Cishaurum as I initially thought because the Pshuke is invisible to sorcerers. It has to be something else... but I can't guess what. Arrgh!!!
Damn you Scott, damn you to the depths of hell!!! 
[size=59:7vbgnjup][i:7vbgnjup]Just kidding.[/i:7vbgnjup][/size:7vbgnjup]
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Don't feel bad Dharok, I asked that same question a long time ago. It's only on the board. It's also unclear from reading the books that Non-Men are victims of amnesia [long term anmesia anyway]; you don't really find it solidly said and explained in the books until TTT's glossary. Regarding face snatching, I initially figured that it had something to do with the Tekne's ability to create skin-spies but Mekeretrig's cape makes that inaccurate I guess. view post
[quote="Curethan":4qlh1jdd]Hehe Harrol 
was referring to Anaxophus actually.
Oh yeh - teleportation - that completely outweighs the element of surprise - not. You dont see the bullet that kills you.
It would seem that maybe he's not the first to use sorcery to teleport... remember the cishaurim's assasination of the previous leader of the SS. From Eleazareus' recollection it certainly seemed like they teleported into the chamber. Funnily enough they forgot to teleport away...[/quote:4qlh1jdd]
Don't be silly. They made themselves invisible and since the Pshuke is undetectable...
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I was talking about the battle. view post
The presumption I made on the matter of 'detecting' the Few is that it takes a special sensitivity. Not to suggest that Akka couldn't have such a sensitivity but that it's a part of the training of the "*Pederesk" to develop this sensitivity to the existence of the Few so that they can detect Potentials. Akka didn't notice that Kellhus was one of the Few because he wasn't trained to be a Pederesk and as such his sensitivity to the Few hasn't been developed. He did however notice [i:26i0wbl7]something[/i:26i0wbl7] about Maithanet while he was in Sumna, but Maithanet exposed himself prematurely by letting Akka know that he could see that Akka was a sorcerer. Whether or not Akka would have realized Maithanet was one of the Few without the Shriah saying anything is what I've always wondered. *The Pederesk are schoolmen assinged by the Mandate to discover the Few within Nron. On the matter of Iyokus's last conjuring: The 'eye for an eye' thing shouldn't be taken literally. Iyokus didn't want Akka's eye, he wanted Akka. The demon was supposed to disable the sorcerer and return him to Iyokus for... round-two of his torture in Iothiah. Akka was badly beaten, hence the swollen eye, but ultimately his leg was the only injury that concerned him once he recovered from the Fever. Oh, and I hadn't considered the Seswatha consumation thing. I don't think it happened. Seswatha's only known purpose is to protect the Gnosis, not fight his followers' battles. I don't think Akka's destruction of the Sareotic Library was Seswatha either; just a pissed-beyond-comprehension Akka. view post
Um, I'm going to have to disagree; homey was whacked out! He was crazy! Loony! Psychotic! Off his rocker! MAD!
However it was the good kind of mad. He didn't drool on himself, or count straws in his head or any of the other stuff that would get you put in an asylum. He was just homicidal, that's all. Severely homicidal.
His lover drove him mad. His lover's sun drove him crazy. Can you blame the guy for being a little bit loopy?
And to keep with the point of the thread...
I think he'll be much more stable when we see him next.
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[quote="Gravity Gun":2dx3ylfp]I mentioned this in another thread -- but really the best way is to go by sea, which means allying with Zuem (sp?). If you look at the map, the land route is just far too long. From the Three Seas to Golgotterath, the supply line will be simply unmanagable. And a supply line there must be, since the north is a wilderness so the army can't live off the land. If he intends to go by land, 40 years of preparation will still not be enough.[/quote:2dx3ylfp]
Very true!
On the matter of the book starting 20 years from now. Does that actually mean that nothings happend in 20 years or that that's simply where we will pick-up. Remember that things like flash-backs, conversational recollections and rumors can be used to tell the story of the last twenty years. For instance,
First Gossiper: Hey, did you hear about the Emperors old vizier?
Second Gossiper: No, what happened to that guy?
First Gossiper: I heard he was seen passing from Kiyuth into Scylvendi lands two months ago.
Second Gossiper: No way! He's so dead.
etc.
Akka may simply recall his journey into the ancient north on his way to Ishterebinth. Where does it say that he's on his way to see the Dunayin?
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Which would be perfect considering that the Three Seas has Kellhus. Yes! I support this idea. Let the Consult find and merge forces with the Dunyain. Then we'll get a holy war worth the title, The Second Apocolypse.
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What more about the Dunyain does he need to know 
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It is unlikely that Arthritau exists any longer. view post
[quote="kaboos":1g3b4cf4]no it would still exist...just not many people are aware of it's existence...
but it could be a possibility that akka would be there...unlikely...but possible.
[/quote:1g3b4cf4]
I figured it didn't exist because the Consult passed through it to find out about the Dunyain after PON; I doubt they left survivors, especially since the Sranc were with them.
Also,
Akka full of passion after TTT? Is there a different version of this book I don't know about?
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He already knows that Kellhus is an Anasurimbor, he doesn't need the Dunyain to confirm it; his dreams and knowledge of the line have done that for him. Whether or not he's the last of the Anasurimbor is irrelevant. He's Kellhus; all else are moot. He already knows what they, the Dunyain, want. Cnaiur had sufficient knowledge of the Dunyain ethos, not just their preternatural capabilities. He needn't share any information with the Dunyain. In fact it would not avail him or the Three Seas anything... good. Intuition, I'd wager, more than knowledge will make this clear. And Kellhus can and will learn of his ancestry (extensively) from the Mandate. I think Kellhus and Achamian are without further use of one another and I suspect this will remain the case until the proverbial 11th hour; not unlike the situation between Seswatha and Celmomas. view post
I agree that we should be mindful of the fact that we are the minority but that doesn't mean I'm going to be silent when I see blatant religiosity being used as the grounds of logic in laws and court cases. As with all things, there is a balance to be struck in addressing the majority as a minority; you don't want to be a self-made martyr but you can't let your basic rights get tread on either; the fact that Billy-Bob and Mary Sue Allen don't believe in abortion, drinking alcohol or Scientology shouldn't hold any power over your ability to do so. Sorry, I know that's off topic but I had to say it. view post
ROFLMAO!!!! You're killing me Cohen. Killing me! view post