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posts by Curethan Didact | joined 28 Mar 2006 | 397


posted 30 Mar 2006, 08:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Curethan, Didact

Now, now. Cnaiur appears to be the most overlooked character on these forums. It's surprising to me to see that there is speculation that TTT was his "swazond-song"(hehe). In my estimationhe gets almost as much narrative devoted to him as Akka, which in itself should tell you something. His character is one to which Scott has devoted a lot of thought to creating, because his actions require a convoluted and deep study to understand. Although he is responsible for many horrid acts, these are largely premeditated by his "darkness that comes before" and his attempts to reconcile his personality to it, giving rise to his insanity. However, of all the characters in the entire series, he is also one of the few who performs/attempts selfless acts to aid others, although he refuses to aknowledge them. Furthermore his role saving Kellhus in the circumfixion underpins his role as a key device in the series. His relationship to both the consult and Kellhus is doubly interesting as he is "outside" their control, yet used/using both. And as for him being too old for the next volume, the glossary clearly states the inchoroi's ability to grant "immortality". view post


posted 31 Mar 2006, 07:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Curethan, Didact

I believe that all of the main characters will return. Throughout the three books, the three main povs have followed the focal point of Kellhus, who is never properly defined as a character, but remains a fasinating plot device. He is the crucible through which they have come to be the characters required for the events of the major story arc, imo. Cnair is the most interesting of these characters because he stands closest to Kellhus' id and is yet his most adverserial. After all from Kellhus' admittedly diminutive emotional perspective, (which is never enlarged upon) he has always told truth. And the "miracle" of the circumfixion was dependant on Cnaiur's intervention, I seem to remember Kelhus ruminating that the reigns had slipped his fingers at that point. Several times Kellhus says, "I should have killed him..." and yet he does not... I think that Cnaiur has become Kellhus' "proof", hehe. view post


posted 31 Mar 2006, 07:03 in Literature DiscussionBooks that have induced a mindfuck by Curethan, Didact

Alright people. Just read Aylett, Steve. Slaughtermatic, Shamanspace, Crime Studio. The day they get optioned for movies will be the day that I realize I have died and gone to Mindfuck Heaven. view post


posted 31 Mar 2006, 08:03 in Literature DiscussionNeeding some good suggestions. by Curethan, Didact

Some good mentions above, so I won't repeat any. Here I some other books I would recomend to anybody. Read Jeff Vandermeer or Steph Swainston if you enjoy fantasy/lit style. Steve Aylett's "Slaughtermatic" if you enjoy wicked prose and a good laugh. Greg Egan has some great SF shorts, and "Quarantine" is great. If you want an easy read, and want to catch up on one of the all time fantasy pioneers, get into Micheal Moorcock's "Eternal Champion" series. You think RJ got a lot of volumes in the WoT series.... view post


Dan Brown ain't so bad. posted 31 Mar 2006, 08:03 in Literature DiscussionDan Brown by Curethan, Didact

I can understand a lot of the frustrations that some people hold regarding Dan Brown's books. When something is so popular and you know there are many, more worthy books that people should appreciate... I myself haven't read it, the story does not appeal to me because I am an Aetheist and have little interest in the story of the new Testament. That doesn't stop me from understanding it's broad appeal; those that both dislike and like the catholic church will find this an interesting notion, the concept of conspiries within ancient clerical societies that hearken back to the very scriptures all Christians revere... Doesn't make it a work of art though. I did read Harry Potter, and they were a cracking good read. Sure, I was reading the Illiad, LOTR and Moorcock when I was a kid, but understand the broad appeal of this series too. I'm just happy that people are still buying books to be honest! After all, you have to read a lot of books before you develop a proper critical language. Then you can tell after the first 50 pages whether or not you will enjoy it. :) view post


posted 31 Mar 2006, 09:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtDELETED by Curethan, Didact

To my mind, there is a simple answer. Kellhus is being both recognized as the head the thousand temples and as he of state above all the nations of the three seas . It's worth noting that as yet, he is only recognized by about half of the powerbrokers of the three seas (not everyone attended the holy war i think, and only Maithenet and the Mandate had showed up at the end of TTT). Admittedly Kelhus has control of the most powerful army and religious and political figures, but I think we can understand why we will skip so many years before Aspect Emperor. The term aspect is certainly interesting and undoubtedly important. To me it suggests that Kellhus is possessed by the God, or one of his 1000 aspects as seen by Inrithism and is therefore an agent of God in history. (ref the Glossary) TTT seems to suggest that Cnaiur is possesed by an "God" or "demon" in a similar way, either that or he is merely insane... I got the feeling that the Gods, whatever their true nature have been moving through all the major characters, that each is on the way to becoming "aspected" somehow. Prob'ly way off the mark though, but its been nagging at the back of my mind. view post


Vogon Poetry posted 31 Mar 2006, 09:03 in Member Written WorksVogon Poetry by Curethan, Didact

When I sit down to do some writing, the first half to full hour can be an agony as I strive to find my pace and linguistic rythym for the piece I am going to work on. Perhaps this is because I only do so sporadiacly - however. I find it theraputic and cleansing to first disgorge some inane and absurd poetry or go blah on the web. This way I'm doing both. Enjoy.... or not. The Night of the Pale Mourning The night bled into the horizon as the sun fled. Hens cackled like bereaved chickens, The fox removed his headphones. And the night continued to paint the sky the colour of sorrow. The mountains sank to the plain, Cows removed their palatoons, And danced hidden amongst the shadows, Darkness encompassed the eyes of the world. All was cosseted in the blanket of night, Playful rocks winked as I slept, I felt their eyelashes stir the breeze, The stars turned their light inward to leave the sky unbreached. The dark enslaved the moon with a headsock of velvet, People of the world were enlightened By the vilisimnitude of light denied, Peace rained down like a sightless glass. With the sound of a million motionless rocks, The pain of a butterfly peaked, As it withstood the gale of my sigh, And the darkness broke into the endless crash of morning. view post


Seswatha's dreams. posted 02 Apr 2006, 11:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSeswatha's dreams. by Curethan, Didact

I am curoius as to what people think about the dreams of the Mandate Schoolmen. They seem to me to come from "outside" the world, and towards the end of TTT, it becomes evident that their content is not immutable, at least to Akka. I think in WP he talks about the dreams "changing" too. If this is the case, what relevance does it hold? The Celomomian prophecies are a key point regarding the 2nd apocalypse, but there is no other evidence of precognitive magic throughout the series. Are the dreams in fact proof of the influence of some of the thousand gods (whatever their true nature) inside the world? view post


posted 02 Apr 2006, 11:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe No-God by Curethan, Didact

Hmm, I have a theory about the nature of the no-god. I think he may be "manufactured" through the sythesis of the Scylvendi's "dead god". The Consult are, after all, not inchoroi to my interperation. They are humans and non-men who allied with them, and have since become synthese, products of the Tekne. The No-god is sealed by choroi for a good reason to my mind. He is sealed inside the world of the three seas - dead on the "outside". This would explain why he cannot know his nature. He would be a neccesary tool for sealing the world from outside imo, a way to suck all the souls of the world up, a diversion from the normal flow of the cycle of souls. Hey, and remember that the chorae are called the "tears of god", yet they originate from the consult. view post


posted 03 Apr 2006, 10:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe No-God by Curethan, Didact

Hey, thanks for the feedback guys. :D Very interesting points there, obv. I'm not the first to detect a link between the no-god and the dead god of the Scylvendi. I'll try and clarify the cycle of souls thing, EE. It seems to me that the passage of (human) souls from Earwa is determined by the gods to which they pay homage (do a good job worshiping in their chsen way, get a ticket to one of their pocket realities in the afterlife). For it to be a cycle, souls must obviously come the other way too. Thus, souls' passage from the world to the "outside" and vice versa must in some way be linked to the gods. Remembering that the Scylvendi were originally one of the five tribes of men and were not allied to the consult [u:jailrro7]before[/u:jailrro7] the summoning of Mog-pharau, the fact that they worshipped only one god (I think he was the god of war too?) suggests that he was quite a major diety. Perhaps by summoning him [u:jailrro7]completely[/u:jailrro7] into the world (a more powerful version of summoning, and a good reason that such practices would lead to damnation), the Inchoroi were able to kind of subvert and short circuit the link that he originally played in the human cycle of souls. Thus, instead of passing into the outside or inhabiting the bodies of the babies for which they were destined on the way into the world, the souls were drawn to him ... creating a kind of whirldwind that constanly surrounded him even? This would make the Consult's aim of sealing the world off from the outside almost complete, they could've just sat in the Incu-Holinais and waited for everyone to die of old age, I guess... His carapace would be some kind of prison or casing for a pocket dimension that binds him. Well, it kinda makes sense to me... Oh yeah, and the only kind of diety that the Consult would venerate would be their instrument of liberation from damnation, he doesn't need to serve any other purpose to be the closest thing they would ever get to regarding as "holy". view post


Steve Aylett! posted 03 Apr 2006, 10:04 in Literature DiscussionSteve Aylett! by Curethan, Didact

Hey! Anyone here ever read any Steve Aylett? I know it ain't fantasy, but it is damn good stuff. (And worth 100 cool points in my eyes ;) ) Just beware, about half his books are almost inpenetrable, but if you appreciate wit and prose that burns your retinas, give it a go. Start with Slaughtermatic, Shamanspace, The Crime Studio and Bigot Hall. view post


posted 03 Apr 2006, 13:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe No-God by Curethan, Didact

Perhaps it is the act of him absorbing, then perhaps using or transforming the nascent souls that results in the the stillborn children. Thus the end justifies the means. Earlier, when I described the dead-god as manufactured, I meant to imply that my impression of the synthese led me to think that the Inchoroi's creations were synthesised from fauna native to Earwa and the Tekne. When they made first contact with the non-men they had no mouths with which to communicate, but they quickly progressed to the point where they could manipulate the "genetics" of the non-men to make them nigh immortal with the Tekne, so it stands to reason that many of their creations would be pervsions of creatures they found on Earwa - a synthesis of the Tekne and the Onta, maybe. It seems that the summoning of the No-god etc happened after they had been given knowledge of the Gnosis by the renegade school... (Interesting that they could make chorae [i:1o8naqk4]before[/i:1o8naqk4] that though.) view post


posted 03 Apr 2006, 13:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionBad, bad book. BAAAD. by Curethan, Didact

Terry Goodkind. Robert Adams (never to be confused with Adam Roberts). P-tooie. view post


posted 04 Apr 2006, 02:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe No-God by Curethan, Didact

Oh. I think that new births are a very important thing for the Inchoroi and the consult to stop. Remember they used the womb plague as a very effective means of wiping out the non-men. (At that time humans were seen as little more than beasts and thus escaped attention) Reducing the number of souls (or total extermination) on the plane and stopping the influx of new/re-incarnated souls would seem to be key to their plan to "seal off" the outside. They may be immune to ageing, but that does not stop them being killed or subject to the influence of "outside powers" (I too baulk at designating them "gods" in the classic sense) and thus succumbing to damnation. Although I'd have to say damnation must be a pretty horrible fate for the consult to fear it so. Also, I'm not sure that Kellhus felt that the Dunyain would ally with the consult, wasn't he specifically saying that Moenghus would, and that was why he had to kill him? view post


posted 04 Apr 2006, 02:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSeswatha's dreams. by Curethan, Didact

Hmm. Could be that Kellhus is manipulating the dreams. He has mastered the gnosis by that point... As for Akka becoming more like Seswatha, I'd don't think so. Seswatha seemed to be highly manipulative and focused on defeating the consult only. As a prodigy from an early age he experienced none of the tribulations that Akka has, and had a supreme sense of conviction and self belief. I can hardly imagine two less similar characters to be honest. However they are similar in a number of situational ways, and Esmenet does bang on about their similarities, so perhaps it's just my interperetation of their characters. view post


posted 04 Apr 2006, 03:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSeswatha's dreams. by Curethan, Didact

[quote:12mk34q6]The Dreams were changing before Kellhus mastered the Gnosis[/quote:12mk34q6] I thought that was the case, it was just that I could only be sure of it during the last dream described in TTT. If you could elaborate? Kellhus seems (to me) to be more Seswatha's historical equivilent as Seswatha mainly seemed to work through others also ... Celomas, his son, Anaxophus etc. - a motivator as much as an active participant. (Why couldn't he wield the Heron Spear btw? It seems almost as if he couldn't even touch it...) I'd like to hear others' reasons for believing that Akka and Seswatha are so similar, perhaps I'm missing something. view post


posted 04 Apr 2006, 04:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionSex by Curethan, Didact

I am male. No, wait ... boy. No, no ... girly-man. Hehe. I tend to think that the covers of the (paperback) books would not be appealing to females in general. Black, brooding man faces and a blurb that rattles on about dominating men and apocolyptic happenings... You get enough of that in RL. After all, the content of the books is ipso facto, and I believe the strength of the writing and the entangling of philosophy and fantasy overides any gender bias that would detract from a female's perspective, imo. The atrococities described within, whilst wearying, are neither gratuitous nor suggestive of Scott having any morbid fascination, merely a matter of fact occurence of the setting and culture. No worse than delving into historical fact really. Overall, I wouldn't accuse any of the POV's in PON to be repulsive to women in general, and Esmenet is a fascinating portrayal of strong femininity in a culture that places little value on women. (Certainly turns the "whore with a heart of gold" stereotype on it's head to my mind). view post


posted 04 Apr 2006, 09:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe No-God by Curethan, Didact

Yah, I believe Khellus said that Moenghus had commited acts as he travelled the three seas that would damn him , and that was why he would ultimately ally with the consult. Also, I was reading the glossary and was struck by a phrase there-in, namely "(the) soul that encounters him passes no further". It references the battle plain of Mengedea where the No-god was destroyed. And the Scylvendi swazond are "believed by some to be the markers of stolen strength". Whether or not these things are relevant to the nature of the No-god is debatable, but I it might be part of where I get my crazy theories. Hmmm view post


posted 05 Apr 2006, 07:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe No-God by Curethan, Didact

Obviously we don't have enough information, that's what makes speculating on these forums fun. We sharpen our perceptions of the ideas presented in the novels on each other's views and gain further enjoyment from the story thereby. :) (gosh this thread is rather nebulous really) A couple of points (as I see them); The Dunyain do not lie. As conditioned ones, they are taught to deal only in empirical truths as defined by their teachers. The only time Kelhus tells a bald faced lie throught the series is when he misrepresents himself as a prince. Even then, the lie was not his, and I recall him being somewhat suprised at the concept and it's efficiency. The truth is their lever for manipulation and a part of their conditioning. Of course the truth differs to each person, however, the Dunyain's use of the logos apparently alows them to cut to the barest truth. The logos itself is very interesting, being defined as that which allows humans to strive against the darkness that comes before, implying that those that are self-aware (note that the No-god does not seem to be) have some latitude of moving whithin the strictures of their predetermined circumstance and personality. Dunyain "conditioning" focuses on aprehending and manipulting the truth of these factors. So lying is not seen as part of the logos, and would be seen as useless. My understanding of the outside etc is that it is the unknowable part of the universe. Earwa itself is a part of the outside, but is largely self contained in the way that it's inhabitants percieve it. (Remember the "pocket realms" of the gods.) It could be likened to a habitat at a zoo in some ways (a very wobbly analogy), the creatures within are only dimly aware of the greater world outside - which itself can have a large effect on them. The different faiths in the three seas have vastly seperate views of the outside, yet they both find vindication in their views. The struggle between Inrithism and Fanimry could well reach beyond the manipulations of the Dunyain at large. Obviously, one united faith is required to oppose the inimical machinations of the Consult and the No-god, who are definately the opposite of the denizens of the outside [b:1e2wetnw]and[/b:1e2wetnw] the logos. Sorcery is the act of making the world conform to language, and language is also the very root of the logos, that which enables self awareness and understanding what has gone before and what may be. Although the Dunyain have no understanding of sorcery and repudiate its efficiacy - remember that it's power lies in analogies, abstractions, paradox and the duality of thought and speech. All quite useless in dealing with the logos, which demands clarity, truth and certainty. Only when one must struggle to deal with lies, misunderstanding and one's own unreasonable emotions do such things become necasary. The Psukhe is very interesting, being related to emotion rather than intellect. The duality of these two concepts within the souls of men is, imo, paramount to many of the concepts that Scott is exploring through this series (and one of the primary concerns of philosophy). The Logos is devoted to mastery through intellect, but lacks direction without the motivation of emotion. The reality of demons in the narative leads me to believe that the gods are similar entities, only more powerful, able to meddle to some extent in the Earwa from without. As to their nature, I would imagine that it would in some ways be shaped by the will of men. I would speculate that they are forces shaped by memes, souls can enter and leave Earwa, and they are the connection to gods and the outside. Whew, I wonder if any of that makes sense. Or if it's on-topic. view post


posted 05 Apr 2006, 07:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSeswatha's dreams. by Curethan, Didact

I agree that Achamian is more than he thinks he is (Aren't we all...) And Seswatha's dreams would certainly affect your personality (They're nearly as bad as some of mine, hehe) I feel that Achamian has certainly changed throughout the series, but I cannot see him in anything like what Seswatha was during the first apocalypse. He was the constant, implacable foe of the Consult rousing nations and armies against them, at the head of every victory and calamity that befel the Norasai. Possesing unrivaled knowledge of the gnosis and the lore of the non-men, he certainly seemed the Kahiht of the apocalypse to me. Achamian on the other hand has, at the end of TTT, rejected Kellhus, the Mandate, Esmenet and everything that made him himself, becoming an outcast with no purpose. The way I see it he has three options ... return to Kellhus and kneel (probable, Kellhus isn't wrong much), join with the consult (highly unlikely) or go and live as a hermit and fight the consult on his own (not very conducive to the storyline). I guess that in the way that Esmenet sees the parallel between Achamian and Seswatha I can agree though. (Recalling that Esmenet's perception of Seswatha is drawn from the Sagas) Both Achamian and Seswatha suffer greatly in their struggle against the consult and neither recieve aknowledgment or reward for their pain and loss. view post


posted 06 Apr 2006, 07:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Amoral Khellus by Curethan, Didact

I agree. And I find it interesting that it is these emotions that provide impetus. I mean, it's all very well to be Dunyain and strive to create a "self moving soul" ... but what the hell would one do? The process of selection and conditioning seems devoted to removing all emotional responses and focusing on logic and intellect but what the heck does someone with no emotion want? Nothing, as emotions are born of the physical body's innate needs (hunger, a mate, mastery over the environment etc) I would speculate that the Dunyain's ultimate descendant would abandon it's body and achieve assescion to the outside, rendering it's mastery over the physical world an empty and trivial thing. But then, I'm kinda in love with irony. Kellhus is aware of the fundamental shift in his character and I think it is pivotal in the overall story arc. view post


posted 06 Apr 2006, 07:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by Curethan, Didact

System of a Down. Judas Priest. Wolfmother. Queens of the Stone Age. *Randomize - Wig out* view post


posted 06 Apr 2006, 07:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionFirst Word that Comes to Mind by Curethan, Didact

day view post


posted 06 Apr 2006, 07:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionWords You Like or Don't Like by Curethan, Didact

diphthong. It is a stoopid word with four constanants in a row. What's not to like? view post


posted 11 Apr 2006, 07:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKellhus, his divinity, and his "good guy" status. by Curethan, Didact

Haha. I like the thought of Kellhus as evil, but I would like someone to present one "evil" act the guy has performed.... Sure, he manipulates people, but their choices remain their own. And the method of his manipulation is certainly not evil. Possesing an encyclopediac knowledge of the scars of the soul and your current emotional state, he knows your possible answers and simply choses the right question. When I manipulate my child in a similar fashion in order to compel him to go to bed or perform a chore, am I too being evil? Well, I guess it is an aspect of human nature to resent those more powerful/intelligent than oneself, and to pity those less capable than ourselves. I would refer to Frederik Nietsche (Beyond Good and Evil) for an insight into the concept of the superman as represented by the Dunyain in PON. view post


posted 13 Apr 2006, 14:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKellhus, his divinity, and his "good guy" status. by Curethan, Didact

One who argues his point well manipulates. Once your point of view, or perception of things has been changed by an argument, you still command your actions thereafter. If you sacrifice your life without cause because I have manipulted you (without lying, as Kellhus does) that is not my moral choice, but yours. Doesn't make me evil - makes you a victim of Darwinism in my book. :wink: Comunication is nothing but manipulation in this sense of the word; to my mind, falsehood and deception are the root of the fear and evil that can arise from it. As I have previously stated, Kellhus never fabricates lies himself, and rarely dresses the truth to merely to suit his aims. The feelings of deception and betrayal that beset the characters who have dealt with him arise because they have not asked the right questions -either of themselves or him. Morality is a highly personal thing, and is defined through your life experiences and perceptions, as is one's concept of good and evil. Kellhus lacks a personal veiw of good and evil as a Dunyain (they understand the way emotions work in order to master them, but knowing something intellectualy is completely different to experiencing it), as a human he still posseses a normal emotional spectrum. Prevoius posts on this forum have done a great job of charting his devolpment and recognition of this. One that I think has been overlooked is his recognition of Conphas as a psychopath, which Khellus certainly is not. He may yet don a black hat and "turn to the dark side" (snigger). But I think he would be a victim of hubris rather than selfishness in that case. I simply cannot see someone conditioned as a Dunyain becoming a victim of their appetities and hatred. view post


posted 13 Apr 2006, 14:04 in Member Written Worksthe decapitating adventures of the merry chainswhore by Curethan, Didact

Teeheehee. :D Ace, bravo, wunderbar. I felt a goodly amount of cartharsis reading that. Haha, Red Durst - shoulda poked out his piggy little blue eyes to see what's really behind 'em. Ha - mascot 'eh, shredding it onstage with a chainsaw - nice! Encore! view post


posted 13 Apr 2006, 23:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWater by Curethan, Didact

Hmm. I tend to think of the difference between the two types of magic this way. Standard sorcery as practiced by the schoolmen is constructed through artifice (using their intellect and ancient forms to wield the power, that originates from outside - thus "source-ery"), whereas the Cishuarim basicaly "channel" the power directly via their emotive connectection with their god/ancestors. The term water is especially relevent in this case, as it suggests power without form. Water is the most destructive element in the world. Beats fire hands down - and carves the very shape of mountains and continents. :wink: view post


posted 14 Apr 2006, 11:04 in The Thousandfold Thoughtif you were in his shoes... by Curethan, Didact

Hmm, personally, I'd go get wasted for a couple of years, wait for the pain to abate and get over it. Cutting yourself off from your past is always fun too, it allows you to make new friends and reinvent yourself. Revenge is never worth the bother. Moping around and casting yourself as the wronged party just bores everyone (including yourself eventually). Poor little Akka... he could just relocate to a Stephen Donaldson novel. (Okay, that's a bit harsh :twisted: ) view post


posted 14 Apr 2006, 12:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionWords You Like or Don't Like by Curethan, Didact

Buggerlugs. Hate that. My father used it as a pet name for me, then one day I looked up the etymology behind it ... now I worry about repressed memories. :? view post


posted 15 Apr 2006, 06:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionHow odd... by Curethan, Didact

Hmmm. Well, you could do me a favour. See if you can rip your own arm off. I always wondered why that didn't happen to the guys in the comics. I too have a super power, you know. I can talk to animals. But they pretend not to hear me, just like people. *sigh* view post


posted 15 Apr 2006, 06:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWater by Curethan, Didact

Could be that the fact that the psuhke (how do you pronouce that btw) leaves no mark because it has no verbal component and is therefore not "shaped" by human thought and remains "pure", kinda. Yeh, and I don't see it as being limitless of more powerful than sorcery either - my emotions work better when they are shaped by reason at any rate. view post


posted 15 Apr 2006, 06:04 in The Thousandfold Thoughtif you were in his shoes... by Curethan, Didact

You'd need a harness... Which reminds me of a thought experiment. How the hell do whales get it on. view post


posted 15 Apr 2006, 08:04 in Literature DiscussionDont be ashamed (Harry Potter) by Curethan, Didact

I enjoyed the series too. Started off reading it to my son, now I'm quite hooked too. I'm wondering if Master Potter will start experimenting with drugs in vol7 though, I can just imagine Wizard Frat House... (jokes, just jokes - calm down people) As for why is Voldemort evil? His mommy never loved him obv. (Don't go lookin' for deep philisophical exposition in the Harry Potter books is my advice - leave that to Mr Baker et al) view post


posted 18 Apr 2006, 08:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Curethan, Didact

I think the four tribes of men who entered Earwa brought the tusk with them. Inrithi "re-interperetted" the tusk. The Scylvendi were one of the five tribes (one tribe stayed behind), and so obviously would have worshipped the tusk, but not Inrithism. The nature of the tusk is very interesting to me. What is it really? Did someone knock one of the creator-god's teeth out? Perhaps a question for another thread.... view post


posted 18 Apr 2006, 08:04 in Philosophy DiscussionCan we really tell history "as it was"? by Curethan, Didact

Official histories are at least as flawed as current events reporting (in any medium). Therefore it's all a tissue of lies. It is ironic that if you want an account that is honest, literal and correct, you should read a fictional story like PON. Then you, and everyone else who has subjectively experienced the recounted events can be sure they got "the truth". view post


posted 18 Apr 2006, 08:04 in Philosophy Discussiontruth glistens by Curethan, Didact

I read it backwards .... and I know the truth! view post


posted 18 Apr 2006, 08:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionHow odd... by Curethan, Didact

How about ... "Toomanydrugzmaaaaaan" view post


posted 18 Apr 2006, 09:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionBad, bad book. BAAAD. by Curethan, Didact

Oh yeah, I remember that un. It damaged my chromosomes. But still not as bad as Goodkind. They are making prisoners in Guantanamo bay read that (a la clockwork orange). view post


posted 18 Apr 2006, 09:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by Curethan, Didact

Opeth, Neil Diamond, the Specials view post


posted 20 Apr 2006, 09:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Curethan, Didact

He's probably just run out of room. :) Or perhaps it marks and important (and final) break with his people/culture. Moenghus' death would be a major event emotionally for Cnaiur - remember he loved him at least as much as he hated him. Moenghus was a lot of things to Cnaiur, mentor, father figure, lover etc. view post


posted 25 Apr 2006, 02:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionList 'Em - Bands by Curethan, Didact

Ooooh, I'll keep an eye out for "Piddle", just for the name... That CD would go on the top of the stack. Hehehe. Seems like the majority of people who post here are into Metal, or at least prog rock, which I find interesting. Does it go with the literature, or is it just that people are more passionate about that sort of music? Personally, I started out on '80's cock rock, have been through Punk, Death, Techno, Alternative, Stoner and Retro and still love some of all of it. ALL TIME FAVES (in no particular order - various genres) Nirvana Judas Priest Pantera Sex Pistols/NoFX (Tie between the original and the best) Infected Mushroom Fear Factory The Pixies Motorhead Regurgitator Portishead I'll keep to ten for now. view post


posted 25 Apr 2006, 02:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionHow did you get your username? by Curethan, Didact

Dunno really. Usually when crap bubbles out of my head I wipe it off, this time it must've dripped onto the keyboard... view post


posted 25 Apr 2006, 02:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionKellhus: dog or cat person? by Curethan, Didact

Well, he's obviously a "people person" - hehe. I tend to think if offered the prosect of a cat or dog for companionship, Kellhus would first dissect, then eat both. view post


posted 25 Apr 2006, 03:04 in Literature DiscussionEddings by Curethan, Didact

Yup, read the Belgarriad when I was about 12 and thought it was great. I still have fond memmories of the characters and situations, however... As one of the earlier fantasy series that was both popular and enduring, it has been ripped off almost as much as the LotR. And there is no worse perpatrator of this than Mr Eddings himself. I read the Mallorean (that is the sequel series, isn't it) about 10 years after and was stunned that he would bother to write the same series again. (I kept having dreams where the characters would commit suicide after realizing the inanity of their existance.) And the Redemption of Althalus was just plain horrible. Characters without motivation, and a plot more precictable that a saturday morning cartoon. view post


posted 25 Apr 2006, 03:04 in Literature DiscussionRobert Jordan diagnosed with Amyloidosis by Curethan, Didact

Really enjoyed the first few books, but then the padding started getting silly. I have persisted however, and look forward to the final volume. Having met the man, it's horrible to hear of his condition, but I can't help thinking that the way he slowed the last seven books down led to an astonishing amount of negative thoughts being directed his way. I know I have been guilty of wishing cancer on him a number of times as a way of getting him to speed things up. (Go on tell me you haven't) Hopefully he will recover, and so will the story. (Hey, anyone care to hazard a guess at how many times he has used the phrase "she folded her arms beneath her breasts"? - dunno where else you'ld fold 'em) view post


posted 25 Apr 2006, 03:04 in Author Q & AFan art for the PoN by Curethan, Didact

Cnaiur = Slaine as drawn by Steve Bisley in my head... [img:3im15dbr]http://www.bry.fast.co.za/~stuartm/rave/cypunx/comix/slain1.jpg[/img:3im15dbr] but with more scars.... view post


posted 26 Apr 2006, 11:04 in Literature DiscussionRobert Jordan diagnosed with Amyloidosis by Curethan, Didact

Yeah, 'tis true. I tend to get a bit carried away... Overall the story is very good, but it could easily be about two or three volumes shorter imo. But I still buy each copy as it is released and devour it in a day, so I can't really say that it is bad. Guess I just like whinging. :wink: view post


posted 26 Apr 2006, 11:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThousand Fold Though Revisited by Curethan, Didact

Could be that the thousand fold thought relates to the psychology and philosophy behind mastering the darkness that comes before a community or culture rather than individuals, "mob psychology" as it were. Just a random thought I had the other day. view post


posted 26 Apr 2006, 12:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionList 'Em - Bands by Curethan, Didact

Could be that liking fantasy and metal are just both signs of good taste. You take fantasy books to metal shows? I assume there was more to it than expecting to get bored :wink: Oh, I wish GWAR would tour down here. Hmm, maybe I should carry a spare copy of "darkness" around... hehe I tried looking on the 'net for Piddle, just got a lot of stuff I didn't wanna know about, so if Edge of Certainty or anyone else can tell me where I might be able to find this band's work I'd be grateful (I'm in Australia, remember). view post


posted 26 Apr 2006, 12:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionKellhus: dog or cat person? by Curethan, Didact

Which part? Oh, and that's your inference, not my implication. :wink: Personally, I'd rather eat a dog or cat than the meat pie (colloquially termed the "mystery bag"), which is my "national dish". Guess that makes me un-Australian, as the prime minister would say. view post


posted 26 Apr 2006, 12:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionFirst Word that Comes to Mind by Curethan, Didact

up view post


posted 28 Apr 2006, 09:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

Oh yeah! Finally - "Bonehunters" has made it down-under. *dances* [quote:vu96msv6]Just finished Jeff Vandermeer's Shriek: An Afterword - really, really good.[/quote:vu96msv6] "Shriek" will be next, but Vandermeer always makes me feel like I ate magic mushrooms. view post


posted 28 Apr 2006, 09:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionHow did you get your username? by Curethan, Didact

Ick - so we could all be lix? (obscure Clive Barker reference) view post


posted 28 Apr 2006, 09:04 in Off-Topic DiscussionFAN ART by Curethan, Didact

Cnaiur [img:qs5jj0fa]http://www.bry.fast.co.za/~stuartm/rave/cypunx/comix/slain1.jpg[/img:qs5jj0fa] + scars view post


posted 28 Apr 2006, 10:04 in Literature DiscussionThe Bonehunters and Steven Erikson by Curethan, Didact

Wzzzt. Just got me a copy so I prolly won't sleep much next couple o daze. Goddamn tho, usually I have excellent recall of any thing I've read and enjoyed, but I seriously think I'm gonna have to go back and reread this whole freaking series. The combination of deliberate obfuscation, 937 locations, 2385 dimensions and 6371 major characters makes it really hard to keep track of stuff. You know what I'm talking about. I tell you, if I ever meet Mr Erikson, I will be sure to compliment the exquisite plotting and execution of such a mammoth epic and then I will kick him square in the nuts. :wink: view post


posted 28 Apr 2006, 10:04 in Author Q & AInchoroi, Souls, the Outside [TTT Spoilers] by Curethan, Didact

Ooooo, the true nature of the Inchoroi has yet to be revealed methinks. The motivations explained in TTT seem to relate mainly to the consult. Here's some speculation for ya. A what if, if you like. The Inchoroi are bio-robots, programmed to terraform the world for whatever lifeform was originally contained in the ark. Thus their attempts to wipe out the non-men. The non-men kicked their butts, and the Consult have co-opted what was left of the Inchoroi and the Tekne to their own twisted ends... Unlikely, but whatever, I just like running off with other people's ideas. view post


posted 30 Apr 2006, 07:04 in Literature DiscussionThe Bonehunters and Steven Erikson by Curethan, Didact

Okay, I'm not really gunna kick anyone anywhere... :) 130 pages in an it's all coming back. As for ordering hardbacks, the postage costs bigtime down here! I got TTT that way, it only cost 3 times as much as waiting for the trade paperback. (hardbacks don't make it here at all unless you order them) Still it was worth it to get a decent read, I was surviving on Dostoevsky... Maybe we should wait'n see how Cnair is shaping up in AE (after he's got some Tekne bodywork) before we start pitting him against big-folk like Karsa, eh? Kicking a skin-spy one on one is at least as impressive as taking down a Soletaken... and just how big would your swazond be if you managed to take down Karsa? Maybe we could put them up to a debate instead - the topic could be "What is best in life?" view post


posted 30 Apr 2006, 07:04 in Literature DiscussionPON vs MBOF vs ASOIAF by Curethan, Didact

I agree with the fact that each of the series is good for a different reason. It is very pleasing that there is now so much quality and diversity in what has been in the past such a cliche ridden and uninventive genre. People who have a problem with Kellhus as a character are missing the point that he really is more of a plot mechanism than a character. As such his "power-level" is moot. Such is the subtle shading in PoN that you cannot even guess by the end of TTT whether he will be ulltimately victorious, or even if he is the head of the "good guys" (i.e. humanity) or just some prick who will eventually have to be killed by the far more sympathetic Akka of Cnaiur... Those same people probably are confused by the lack of a prophecy in the first chapter that spells everything out and the fact that nobody has a magic sword. view post


posted 01 May 2006, 05:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Amoral Khellus by Curethan, Didact

I would like someone to point out an example of Kellhus initiating a lie. Then I'll be inclined to disbelieve Vercint's POV, which I currently happen to agree with. view post


posted 01 May 2006, 05:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtMekeritrig by Curethan, Didact

Doesn't it say something in the glossary about the possibility of Seswatha having cuckolded Celomomas? view post


posted 01 May 2006, 11:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Meeting between Kellhus & Moenghus? by Curethan, Didact

Yah, Non-men are/were the progenitors of the consult. It was one of their gnostic schools that excavated the Arc - searching for a solution to the problem of damnation if I recall. I think that all "ensouled" creatures are linked to the outside - their beliefs help to shape and define the gods and other powers there, whilst they in turn can affect events in Earwa. A kind of symbiosis of faith and philosophy with life. Which makes sorcery and it's connection with damnation very interesting - sorcery can only be used for destruction, and it leaves a mark... view post


posted 01 May 2006, 11:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtMekeritrig by Curethan, Didact

Now that I think on it, it is more likely that Mekeritig recognized Kellhus by his Non-man blood... which could explain why Mekeritig let him go, or at least didn't pursue him too hard. If Mekeratig had told the consult about his encounter with Kellhus, the consult would pretty much know where to find the Dunyain, don't you think. view post


posted 01 May 2006, 11:05 in Off-Topic DiscussionFirst Word that Comes to Mind by Curethan, Didact

fire view post


posted 02 May 2006, 06:05 in Literature DiscussionPON vs MBOF vs ASOIAF by Curethan, Didact

Gah! Snuggly pink bunnies! Hand me my +4 chainsword of antipathy. view post


posted 02 May 2006, 06:05 in Literature DiscussionThe Bonehunters and Steven Erikson by Curethan, Didact

First Erikson I read was Deadhouse Gates. I would recomend it as an entrance point for the series, as the action and cast is more tightly focused and the plot uses a lot of familiar conventions from old war movies, giving it better general appeal. view post


posted 02 May 2006, 06:05 in Off-Topic DiscussionFirst Word that Comes to Mind by Curethan, Didact

sex view post


posted 02 May 2006, 07:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Meeting between Kellhus & Moenghus? by Curethan, Didact

[quote:3kqrxmhr] Arwyl= I wonder if the Dunyain have any inkling at all of what has been happening. I don't remember far back, but do they expect Khellus to return after killing Moe? And now that Khellus has killed Moe for being "a Dunyain still", would they send another to kill Khellus? It's possible they would think that given the events, sending someone alone would be too risky and so perhaps ally themselves with the Consult instead.[/quote:3kqrxmhr] I believe Kellhus was only sent to eliminate Moe after Moe had contacted the Dunyain. The idea is to keep the outside world at bay. They have establiched their own little enclave that is unconnected to the outside (exactly what the consult seek) and require intellectual and spiritual isolation in order to achieve their goal of producing a self moving soul. If Kellhus seeks to contact them, they would then move to eliminate him. [quote:3kqrxmhr]Entropic_existence= Actually it was a human Gnostic school (The Mengaeacca) who "re-discovered" the Ark and linked up with the remaining Inchoroi to form the Consult. Of course as far back as the Cuno-Inchoroi wars there were Non-men who had sided with the Consult and after the Womb Plague and time went on, and more Erratics appeared the Erratics tended to shift over to that side as well.[/quote:3kqrxmhr] Okay, you made me look in the glossary. :wink: quote: "Mangaecca- ....the last of the four original Gnostic Schools. ...then, in 777, at the behest of a Nonman Erratic named Cet'ingira (aka Mekeritig), they discovered the Incu-Holoinas..." Gnostic sorcery was developed by the Nonmen Quya, who imparted it to the Norsirai turing the Nonman Tutelage, 555-825. As the Mangaecca was originally a Nonman School, and the Ark was rediscovered during the tutelage, we can assume that there were more than just one Nonman involved. However," it was Shaeoenanra (in 1123) who claimed to have rediscovered a means of saving the souls of those damned by sorcery." Interesting word; rediscovered. Nonman bootprints all over the Consult, and Aurax and Aurang seem suspiciously like Oirinas and Oirunan if ya ask me. But I can't find any official Nonmen listed as being part of the Consult. view post


posted 02 May 2006, 07:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe No-God by Curethan, Didact

[quote:nqzo0z00]Entropic_existence 3)The Skin-Spy with a soul was described as an aberation. As Scott has said before only Humans, The Inchoroi, and the Non-men are inherently souled but sometimes, through circumstance, creatures without souls can "Awaken". Something like this happened with that Skin-Spy who infiltrated the Mandate. Luckily the Consult never could duplicate it.[/quote:nqzo0z00] Interesting that the aberation just happened to have a soul powerful/old/aware (whatever the criteria actually are) enough to wield sorcery. view post


posted 02 May 2006, 22:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Meeting between Kellhus & Moenghus? by Curethan, Didact

Well, you could hardly call Shaeoenanra human any more either... view post


posted 03 May 2006, 07:05 in Literature DiscussionPON vs MBOF vs ASOIAF by Curethan, Didact

I have an aversion to my local newspaper for the gratuitous way in which assaults and attrocities are reported, describing heinous events in unnecasary detail, and returning to dwell on such incidents on slow news days and Sunday editions. In the context that Steve is writing his fiction, such happenings serve a purpose in exploring the philosophical and psychological themes that his story encompasses. The sympthetic exploration of a character such as Cnaiur would be repulsively difficult for someone who had suffered at the hands of such a character. Returning to the newspaper analogy, PoN contains less graphic accounts of assault and violence (for the most part) but because the reader is often asked to empathise with either the victim or the perpatrator it is more affecting. The ambitiously and perceptively rendered characters in PoN can only exist in a world that reflects our own as closely as Earwa and it is this level of "realistic fantasy" that sets it apart from 99% of other fantasy titles - possibly closer to speculative fiction or contempory lit. Couple others I can think of are Jeff Vandermeer's City of Saints and Madmen and Steph Swainston's "the Year of our War". Parts of the latter were hard for me to read. PoN is the kind of book that will split people's opinions as to whether you like it or loathe it, but I don't find it offensive - mildly galling and depressingly realistic at times, but not offensive. I can appreciate people disliking the mysoginistic and barbarous behaviour in PoN, but I do not feel that the story neither encourages nor attempts to justify it, quite the opposite. view post


Who is most offensive. posted 03 May 2006, 07:05 in Literature DiscussionWho is most offensive. by Curethan, Didact

I was readin in another thread that some folk dislike PoN because of the mysoginy, rape and genocidal attrocities described therein. Which got me to thinking, "Yeh, some of that was fairly depressing stuff...." So I thought we could have a poll. view post


posted 03 May 2006, 07:05 in Off-Topic DiscussionFirst Word that Comes to Mind by Curethan, Didact

road view post


posted 04 May 2006, 02:05 in Literature DiscussionWho is most offensive. by Curethan, Didact

Personally, I find PoN as offensive as a shield ... but I put it on the list in the interests of equanamity. If you haven't read the others on the list - lucky you. And the last two, well, hopefully they're out of print. view post


posted 04 May 2006, 08:05 in Off-Topic DiscussionFirst Word that Comes to Mind by Curethan, Didact

law view post


posted 05 May 2006, 07:05 in Literature DiscussionFavorite books/series by Curethan, Didact

Princess Bride. view post


posted 05 May 2006, 08:05 in The Warrior ProphetThe Warrior Prophet in Australia? by Curethan, Didact

They usually release them at the same time that the next trad paperback in the series is released - thats the usual pattern with fantasy series. So when TTT is released (they've been stuffing around the release date for a while now - but it should be next month, I believe) you should see the mass paperback shortly thereafter. view post


posted 10 May 2006, 09:05 in Off-Topic DiscussionWhere in the world is R. Scott Bakker? by Curethan, Didact

Lol. I wonder how much a book written and signed by an illusory abstraction would fetch on E-bay. view post


posted 12 May 2006, 04:05 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

China Mieville Perdido Street Station view post


posted 15 May 2006, 02:05 in The Thousandfold Thoughthalloed hands by Curethan, Didact

Could be that they're an effect of Kellhus's link to powers of the outside, and depending on your "linkedness" to these powers you can see them more or less clearly. [quote:2bmpthuh]I would say kellhus seas them as hes beggining to believe his own lies by the sheer weight of thousands saying it is true [/quote:2bmpthuh] Wow. A lot of posters seem to think Kellhus (and, by extension, other Dunyain) tells lies. I'm still waiting for evidence of this. (Beyond Cnaiur's mad ravings.) Seems straightfoward that the conditioning and attitudes of the Dunyain preclude even an understanding of what it is to lie. view post


posted 15 May 2006, 22:05 in The Thousandfold Thoughthalloed hands by Curethan, Didact

He doesn't initiate those lies, they are born in the darkness that comes before. The assertion that his is the prince of Atriau is someone else's lie, and Kellhus is initially confused by concept of claiming that he is something that he is not - although he soon comes to see that it is the only way he will acomplish his journey through the holy war. As for making use of lies that others believe in... well thats hardly evil. Personally I ascribe no value to coins and notes, and yet I help maintain the illusion that they are worth trading for goods and services. As long as everyone else maintains this lie, no-one gets hurt.... Getting paid and spending money isn't lying, but it is making use of a lie. Different things. Even then, Kellhus is not really lying, merely behaving in a way that his followers expect. Many times in the narrative there is an obvious choice between lying and saying nothing, and Kellhus says nothing. The thing that pisses off the characters in the books (and makes him unsympathetic to readers - imo) is not that Kellhus manipulates and changes them, but that they come to love him and therefore to strive and to make sacrifices for him and for the truths he reveals, yet he does not love them in return. So - next example of Kellhus [i:22q4c1u7]initiating[/i:22q4c1u7] a lie please. view post


posted 15 May 2006, 22:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Fate of Conphas by Curethan, Didact

Yeah, reading between the lines there - Conphas was a classic example of a psychopath. view post


posted 17 May 2006, 10:05 in The Thousandfold Thoughthalloed hands by Curethan, Didact

Re: the lies thing. It's quite true, Kellhus as prince of Atraihu who dreamt of the holy war is Kellhus' fabrication (although like all good lies it is seeded in truth - recall his legacy as an Anasurimbor - a royal familial name that he retains after 2000 years....) and so I concede the point. He is definately a liar and no doubt one day his pants will be on fire. :D As to the gravity of his lies, well, I guess it's a matter of perception - and perhaps whether you hold to a form of solipism or not. As an aside - I don't hold that my concepts of right and wrong or my personal beliefs make something true, false or absolute outside of myself - but I certainly believe that having some kind of moral framework is required for making decisions as a thinking being, and it is this, if anything, that defines us in the world at large and perhaps is the essence of the soul. Re: the circumfixion. The circumfixion is indeed a critical point as it is when Kellhus apprehends the Thousandfold thought. It is clear that the probability trance is in no way a form of precognition. Kellhus would have known only that crisis point was approaching, not the form that it would take. In TDTCB there is a concise point where the internal narative of Kellhus is describing what it is to be Dunyain: "He did not see what came after. He saw what came before." Part of the thousandfold thought is coming to an understanding the dynamics of mob psychology, as Dunyain conditioning teaches how to see the complete comunication of undisciplined comunication, making the id of an individual transparent, so that the Dunyain can understand an individual better than he understands himself, or in the case of another Dunyain; as well as he understands himself. This, however, does not translate to the behaviour of groups. Moenghus understands the thousandfold thought, this is how he has engineered the Holy War, and Kellhus has to understand it in order to co-opt it. The circumfixion is interesting because, but for Cnaiur's uncharacteristic intervention, Kellhus would have died - a failure. Re: Kellhus's hands My theory. Scott has said, when interviewed, that the inspiration for Kellhus is actually based on the idea of memes. Specifically, a character who can manipulate them. Given my understanding of the concept, memes are ideas that evolve in the "outside", born of ideas in the real world - extra dimensonal forms of ideas that interact with the real world as interdependant forces. Given this, and the setting of Earwa as one in which gross and clumsy manipulation of these forces is seen as sorcery and the effects or manifestations of which are seen as gods and demons, I believe that the haloes are evidence of Kellhus's link with certain memes "outside". Of course, such a link cannot be one way; Kellhus would be both master and slave of these forces. People who are convinced of Kellhus's divinity can see the evidence of it because the are linked to the same memes that are moving/moved by Kellhus. Kellhus can see them, but does not yet understand their nature because he still believes that he is the author of his destiny. Through his heritage and his interactions with the mileu in which he exists this may not be the case. And, perhaps, he does have a burgeoning sense of morality beyond his loyalty to the Dunyain. Linking this theory to my thoughts on the circumfixion above, it is Serwe who first sees the haloes, convinced early of Kellhus's divinity. And I think that Cnaiur only intervenes and saves Kellhus because of Serwe (although his motivations in that scene were unclear at best). Also, several references are made to Cnaiur himself being some kind of demon - or linked to a demon... So, to my mind, the haloes and the circumfixion are actual evidence of some kind of relationship that Kellhus has with the divine/ the outside/memes. It may not be that he is begining to believe his own lies, but that they are in fact truer than he realizes. view post


posted 17 May 2006, 10:05 in Off-Topic DiscussionASOIAF board names by Curethan, Didact

Hey. I just joined too! I too kept my name. C u there. view post


posted 17 May 2006, 10:05 in Off-Topic Discussiondoes anybody know... by Curethan, Didact

meh view post


posted 17 May 2006, 13:05 in The Thousandfold Thoughthalloed hands by Curethan, Didact

Exactly. Just a bit different in a fantasy context... I liked David Brin's treatment of the extra dimensional nature of memes in his uplift series too. view post


posted 18 May 2006, 12:05 in Off-Topic Discussionwhat kind of hat would akka wear? by Curethan, Didact

No hat. Short cropped hair, cuz fatties hate sweatin out the scalp. Balding rather than bald, but not at all in my mental portrait. Hats are too stereotypical for wizards, and the characters in PoN are anything but stereotyped. If he did have a hat though, I would recommend Rincewind's, just for irony's sake. view post


posted 18 May 2006, 13:05 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Curethan, Didact

I was just thinking .... if there was an omniscient entity (like God, for example) and it knew everything (that's everthing, ever) it wouldn't be capable of thinking, would it? Or percieving time... Or worrying about saving the queen... But if it can't think, then it isn't - at least according to Descartes (that was him that said I think therefore I am, wasn't it) and he was way smarter than me. view post


posted 18 May 2006, 13:05 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

Ahaha, just finished Shamanspace by S Aylett. Highly recomended. Now attempting the Tao Te Ching. Interesting to note that reading it to children is an excellent way to put them to sleep ;) view post


posted 19 May 2006, 08:05 in Off-Topic Discussionwhat kind of hat would akka wear? by Curethan, Didact

Lol. And I was just gonna suggest a square cut beard, I think that is described as the "fashion" for older men in Earwa - in Akka's final scene he notes that Proyas looks older with his beard cut square... I don't think he looks like Osama by the way, I like the middle-eastern caste to his features you have achieved. Fits with my impression of the setting. He doesn't look fat or old enough though, all that time under the sun weathers the skin you know, so maybe a bit darker and more wrinkles for mine. Re the hat; I reckon one one of those arabic fabric rectangles with the cord around the crown might be good. Some kind of head protection prob'ly would be a nessecity 'cause the three seas seems like a hot kind of place - don't remember snow being mentioned at all around the 3Cs. Re: clothing; I kind of imagined one of those fat people's shapeless sleeved dress things - you know what I mean? Like Homer wore in that ep of the Simpsons when he packed on the pounds so he could work from home ;) -bit more stylish tho, obv. Maybe a solid red with a dark blue tabard stripe and cuffs - oh yeah, with the cord style belt definatly - matched to the head piece. Guess I'm suggesting a Lawrence of Arabia style ensemble overall, more like Omar Shariff's character in the movie, but that's just my suggestion based on my internal visualisation... Very good job so far, I reckon! Kudos. view post


posted 19 May 2006, 08:05 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Curethan, Didact

Hehe, I only ever post crackpot theories! I just got overstimulating reading a book called Shamanspace, it's about ancient secret societies of assasins (the Hashashim etc) whose true aim was to assasinate God. The depiction of God in that was very out of the ordinary and really got me to thinking... But my point was that if one was omniscient, then you know everything that has happened or will happen with perfect recall then experiencing any one moment would be indistiguishable from rememberance of the past or future, one's conciousness would be locked into the totallity of existence, free will or descion making would be impossible and time an unknowable illusion. Or something. Really it's more a comment on the impossibility of omniscience in a being with any sense of self. So imo, if there is a God it wouldn't be all-knowing or all-powerful in any situation where it wanted to take action... Ohh, it really makes my head hurt. I prefer abstract concepts like Scott's (Moenghus's) where God is viramsata. Personally I consider myself an atheist (yeh, I don't believe I exist either) but if pushed I would tend to think of God like the Taoists, he's both zero and infinitty and men can bother with the numbers in between that they call reality. [quote:2g2fpj8c]and that post i made earlier was just a joke to loosen up the tense atmosphere that i feel everytime i see that someone had made a new post..........no offense to anyone, i love this post, don't kill it.[/quote:2g2fpj8c] I appreciate your humour - it's .... edgy (One day someone will kill me for my bad puns) view post


posted 19 May 2006, 08:05 in Philosophy DiscussionWhat philosopher suits you most? by Curethan, Didact

I have read very few of these, Shopenhauer was recently recommended to me, but I think I'll have to go to a university bookshop to get a hold of any of these guy's book's - cuz we don't hold with fancy book larnin here in Australian bookshops. So if anyone wants to recommend a good place to start (I've read Lao Tzu, Nietsche's "Beyond.." and Plato's "Republic") view post


posted 19 May 2006, 11:05 in Author Q & AWhy are Kellhus and Moenghus of the Few? by Curethan, Didact

The why of Kellhus and Moenghus being of the few is very interesting - I'm pretty sure Celomomas wasn't of the few - but he did make that prophecy about Kellhus, and during K & M's discourse at the end of TTT Kellhus makes the point during his internal musings that if prophecy is real, then the precepts of the Dunyain are erroneous. "Prophecy [i:3o29l0af]could not be[/i:3o29l0af]. If the ends of things governed their beginnings, if [i:3o29l0af]what came after[/i:3o29l0af] determined what came before, then how could he have dominated the souls of so many? And how could the Thousandfold Thought have come to rule the Three Seas?" If the prophecy is true, then Kellhus and Moenghus are merely pawns of the Thousandfold Thought and, by extension, it's progenitor in the future. Which would kind of explain why they are of the few - it's all part of the prophecy, man. (Hope not, prophecy is a hackneyed old beast in the genre) Or they're just of the few because of the reincarnation theory that Kellhus espouses to Akka. view post


The consult/Dunyain alliance? posted 19 May 2006, 12:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe consult/Dunyain alliance? by Curethan, Didact

Lot of musings on various threads about the possibility of the Dunyain allying with the consult. The consult is certainly after the dunyain because of Kellhus and the Thousandfold Thought. Seems likely to me that they'll find 'em at some point before the AE, BUT I think that the point about the alliance with the consult specifically related to Moenghus if you read that exchange again. Kellhus goes on about Moenghus' sins; "when you come to believe, will be no different from the inchoroi. As Dunyain, you will be compelled to master the consequences of your wickedness ... and you will war as they war" The consult and the dunyain have completely diferent aims. In general, the dunyain will choose death rather than to pervert their mission to aprehend the logos, reach enlightenment and create a self moving soul - which would precede everything, and therefore exist outside the circle of the world - which would be impossible if the world was closed off wouldn't it? (rather different from escaping damnation wouldn't you say?). How this can be seen as basically the same as the consult's goal of destroying the world so they can avoid damnation and spend enternity finding new ways to masturbate is beyond me... So, as I see it, the Dunyain seek to escape the world and achieve the absolute even though they believe the world is already sealed. And remember - they arrived at Ishual during the first appocalypse - so they could have allied with the consult back then. And the finding of an Anasurimbor when they arrived at Ishual was a great correspondance of cause... But, you know, I'm really good at being wrong so...[/i] view post


posted 19 May 2006, 20:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe consult/Dunyain alliance? by Curethan, Didact

[quote:3mowkeh8]A final thought and perhaps slightly of topic but sorta connected. kellhus claims to be the warrior prophet and legitimizes sorcery. However whether he is a real prophet is doubtfull and hence sorcery would still be damned if we accept the tusk as true.[/quote:3mowkeh8] I think he was saying at the end of TTT that his new world order involves replacing Inrithism and Fanimry - so he can rewrite the tusk however he likes. Exactly who or what sits in judgement of souls and determines damnation is never made clear though. [quote:3mowkeh8] I don't think the Dunyain would side with the Consult to avoid damnation, rather because the Outside is a force that cannot be controlled or dominated. As such it is an obstacle to their goal of creating a self moving soul. Also, the entire human population need not be wiped out to close off the outside. So the Dunyain training could proceed as it had before, after all they are almost completely isolated anyway. [/quote:3mowkeh8] Seem to be doing just fine anyway, and like cause said, it's impossible to practice eugenics when you can't have children. view post


posted 19 May 2006, 23:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe consult/Dunyain alliance? by Curethan, Didact

Well, yeah. In the prologue of TDTCB one of the first things they do is to burn the grand vizier's books and chisel the sorcerous runes from the walls - they have rejected the gods etc, which is different from not believing in them. They seek to master that which lies within the circle of the world, only by isloating themselves from the polluting influence of the rest of the world (and that includes the consult) can they achieve this. Their conectedness to the outside and the physical world is important - they need it in order to access the logos - but they isolate themselves from the viramsata that walk the ground of other souls by their isolation. That is Moenghus' sin - that he pollutes their sanctuary with the Thousandfold Thought by sending his dreams. The world being closed would end their quest I think - no more eugenics, no more viramsata, nothing new could enter the circle and the enlightened soul they seek to produce certainly would be able to step outside the circle of the world. view post


Questions about Moenghus's death. posted 20 May 2006, 00:05 in Author Q & AQuestions about Moenghus's death. by Curethan, Didact

I was re-reading the scene where Kellhus, then Cnaiur confront Moenghus, and I noticed some inconsistencies that made me confused. First up, Kellhus doesn't kill him cleanly, he must have a reason for that. Then when Cnauir touches Moenghus with the Chorae, he does not salt ... white light streams from his sockets ... as if he is using sorcery, not bearing water and Cnaiur thinks the god is watching him from a man's skull and hears "what do you see?". As the light fades Cnaiur is standing over his corpse, and the "Serwe" skin spy is still alive, when Moenghus could eassily have killed her as he did her brother. Something very strange happened there ... So I guess what I'm wondering is; Is Moenghus really dead? Did he do some kind of soul transfer trick (maybe to the Serwe skin-spy)? Did he really heal Cnaiur's "innumerable scars"? What the heck was the intimation of the no-god about? What was the "force that possesed them"? Probably too spoilerific to answer these questions directly, but I'd appreciate knowing if there is any relevence to these mysteries. view post


posted 20 May 2006, 00:05 in Off-Topic Discussionhaha, fine, "the beer thread" happy? by Curethan, Didact

Beer vouchers? What kind of beer do you Canadians drink anyway? I had Coors once and it was great (much nicer than XXXX), but I haven't been able to buy it since. view post


posted 21 May 2006, 05:05 in Off-Topic Discussionhaha, fine, "the beer thread" happy? by Curethan, Didact

mmmmm ... Piss Water.... view post


posted 21 May 2006, 05:05 in Literature DiscussionPON vs MBOF vs ASOIAF by Curethan, Didact

I think they'd fall in love... view post


posted 23 May 2006, 08:05 in Off-Topic Discussionhaha, fine, "the beer thread" happy? by Curethan, Didact

Oh, I'm shamed by liking Coors obviously... :oops: But, hey, it's a nice change from the beers we get down here. Mind you I live about 2km from the XXXX brewery, so everything kinda tastes like malt to me. Light beer's are a crazed idea from the get go. Bud is the only North American beer you can get here consistently, and I won't drink that... Stella Artois or Crown is probly the nicest imported beer available. But if I wanna do some serious drinking, I head for the single malt irish whisky... Mebe we could all chip in for a nice bottle of Glenfiddich. (Hey, this thread should be renamed "The Beer thread") :D view post


posted 23 May 2006, 10:05 in Off-Topic DiscussionWhat we look like by Curethan, Didact

[img:3ab6bajl]http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j44/Curethan/me0001.jpg[/img:3ab6bajl] view post


posted 23 May 2006, 12:05 in Literature DiscussionThe Bonehunters and Steven Erikson by Curethan, Didact

Well, there was a fair bit of divine intervention and ascendants and whatnot going on all over the shop in that last bit, not surprising that so many people got killed. The amount of claws that Kalam has killed throughout the series, I reckon half of those would've been just out of assasin school as it were. And wtf was the story with Oppon? I just didn't get that. Erikson's plotting is tight, but his writing can get a bit confusing to me. And if you are looking for realism, look elsewhere .... these are D&D characters for crying out loud - Kalam would be, what, level 8 zillion? Interesting aside; I lent Gardens of the Moon to one of my friends who isn't really into fantasy as a rule - he gave it away after about 100 pages and said, "It just seems like some dude writing about his D&D campaign or something..." without any idea that that's where the setting/story came from. Ha! view post


posted 23 May 2006, 13:05 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe consult/Dunyain alliance? by Curethan, Didact

So why didn't they sign up during the first apocolypse.... The Dunyain knew of sorcery, the gods and the outside when they first went to Ishual, but these were things that they could not master, things that would interfere with their mission. Therefore they isolated themselves from them. They are ignorant of them now by choice, their environment is completely under their control. Any pollution is isolated, mastered, contained and/or removed. They do not seek to destroy or master the world, only their immediate environment. They do not care what happens after they die, they seek to create an enlightened being - not become one. Each Dunyain is one step closer to their goal, but is ultimately a flawed being which must ultimately be discarded. They are useful inasmuch as they advance the forms of training, pass on their knowledge etc, but sooner or later they must die and give way to the next link in the chain. If they take a backwards step, or become contaminated.... skritch! Their focus is not to close the world. They need to be isolated to continue their work, they require unmolested, conditioned ground, but once they have achieved their goal - a self moving, enlightened soul, what then? [quote:afsjm9cu]I don't see the Logos as having inherently anything to do with the Outside, it seems to be more... real world/logically oriented than anything.[/quote:afsjm9cu] Well, what is the logos? As an [i:afsjm9cu]idea[/i:afsjm9cu] it must exist in the outside. Kill all the Dunyain, and where is it then? It's use pertains to the world and is a supreme tool in manipulating the souls and actions of men, and as such is as much a part of the outside as scripture, which purports to be the word of god! Imo, the Dunyain are working with the outside as much as any sorcerer or chishuarim, they have isolated themselves within the real world so that they have access to a part of the outside that is "blank" (i.e. their own "pocket dimension") [i:afsjm9cu]Their[/i:afsjm9cu] "god", or meme or viramsata is the logos, the dunyain are it's conditioned ground, it moves them and through them. They work with the outside and its dichotomous relationship to the real world and master both through the use of the logos - which is reason untouched by emotion. To do this they must be unsullied by the rest of the world; kings, people, sorcery, gods, the consult anything that they do not control. That which cannot be controlled must be eliminated - but the self moving soul will be able to master and control [i:afsjm9cu]any[/i:afsjm9cu] situation and will certainly walk through and change the world and indeed the outside. view post


posted 23 May 2006, 13:05 in Off-Topic Discussionhaha, fine, "the beer thread" happy? by Curethan, Didact

All right. It's obvious. I don't drink at all. I smoke bug powder dust and shoot up mugwump jism. And I have obviously had too much. I was just trying to impress people. :cry: view post


posted 23 May 2006, 23:05 in The Thousandfold Thoughtnonmen by Curethan, Didact

I can't remember an actual description of nonmen. How do they differ from men, physically? view post


posted 06 Jun 2006, 04:06 in Literature DiscussionRobert E. Howard by Curethan, Didact

Yuh, Howard's Conan was indeed a rockmiester. I have also read some of his Soloman Kane stories which were quite good too. view post


posted 06 Jun 2006, 04:06 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Warrior-Poet":1qxgw0ug] Just for future references the Scylvendi's god is the No-God thats why they call their god the Dead God, so if your trying to say you think Cnaiur will become the No-God i doubt it.[/quote:1qxgw0ug] He is? I thought so .... but has this been confirmed? view post


posted 06 Jun 2006, 04:06 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWater by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Entropic_existence] I've completely lost track of the purpose of a good three or four threads and fear I'll contradict myself at some point in time.... then I'll create a tear in the time-space continuum![/quote] Now we know what happened to Scott and the old posters. :o view post


posted 07 Jun 2006, 04:06 in Author Q & AConphas' story by Curethan, Didact

Badgers? We don need no steenkin badgers! view post


posted 07 Jun 2006, 12:06 in Literature DiscussionDan Brown by Curethan, Didact

Ha! view post


posted 08 Jun 2006, 04:06 in Philosophy Discussiontruth glistens by Curethan, Didact

Lol. I think, therefore I drink. view post


posted 08 Jun 2006, 04:06 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeYour favourite character? by Curethan, Didact

Mekeritig. view post


posted 12 Jun 2006, 00:06 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Curethan, Didact

I believe Cnaiur will return (perhaps in a different series) leading a street team conseling and supporting emotionaly overstretched barbarian characters. view post


First Scott, then the rest of us... posted 13 Jun 2006, 06:06 in Off-Topic DiscussionFirst Scott, then the rest of us... by Curethan, Didact

Okay. Who wants to know what's really going on? You won't believe me, but I'll tell you anyway. Those forumites at other sites were right! Kellhus is way too powerful a character. Some time during the plotting of AE, Scott came to the part where Kellhus becomes a selfmoving soul. What this means is that he was able to take over the direction of the story, usurping control of the narative. Kellhus then used this power to cross realities, from Earwa to Earth and assume Scott's identity. He has since been tracking down the boarders who might have worked this deception out and eliminating them one by one. Ignore any recent posts by them, as they are manipulative lies designed to ensnare and trick. I can only assume that I have been allowed to make this post because no-one will believe me and others will abandon this line of thought if they raise it themselves. Damn you, insouciant fate! Hang on, there's someone at the door view post


posted 13 Jun 2006, 06:06 in Literature DiscussionTerry Goodkind engages in rape fantasy? by Curethan, Didact

Meh, perverse characters shaped to titilate varied fetishes. Simplified versions of good/evil, social inequity and truth. Contrived situations that offer childish solutions to simplified and unrealistic examples of personal and social maliase. I understand why that is so popular, same reason as "Desperate Housewives", "McDonalds" and global capitalist policy.... but that doesn't mean it's good for you. Goodkind is harmless, doesn't suit my taste, but it does exactly what it sets out to do - make Goodkind rich. It is really funny to see people like the above two posters waging thier idealogical war through cyberspace. The only thing sillier that "mystar" defending the series with religous fervour is the guy who rags it anonymously. Why bother? "Oh no, someone's got a sense of community and self importance out of something they enjoy - STOP THEM!!!" God-damn nazi. view post


posted 15 Jun 2006, 08:06 in Off-Topic DiscussionThe Hangover Whinge: Why oh Why? + A Misery Poll by Curethan, Didact

Coincidence. There was a night where all the ingredients you list above were mixed in the crucible of my body - excepting the meths (I think...) Yes, I required the potent cocktail of alcohol to dull the pain of the marathon video session. I recall with clarity the lurid colours of my vomit and the height I achieved against the kitchen wall ... or was that floor... And verily, it provided a hangover that I cannot forget. I asked an alcoholic for his opinion (handily I have one as a neighbour - I affectionately call him "proto-man" - when he's not listening) and he assures me that meths is the worst (could be due to the poison they put in it). He also suggested that lemon juice lessens the bad taste. 8) view post


posted 15 Jun 2006, 22:06 in Literature DiscussionTerry Goodkind engages in rape fantasy? by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Aldarion":33rgaima]Umm...no. I don't kiss dudes. Not even when I've been drinking. :P[/quote:33rgaima] Yeah, encourages an emotional connection. Next time they'll expect a freebie... :twisted: view post


posted 15 Jun 2006, 22:06 in Author Q & ATTT paperback? by Curethan, Didact

Hah. This is what I hate about serials. I have TDtCB in reg paperback, WP in trade paperback (the large format) and TTT in hardback. That looks "nice" (i.e. retarded) on my bookshelf. :( view post


posted 17 Jun 2006, 03:06 in Author Q & ATTT paperback? by Curethan, Didact

It's just the way it goes. You're lookin fer summink to read, you pick up the paperback. Burn through that - yum, that were good, now, volume two eh, oh look it's just come out in monster paperback, oh well, must read.... 8 months later - faaaaaaaaaark, there's nuffin to reeeead, oh look, those lucky folk in the selfish northern hemisphere have got TTT, I'll just go see if I can find a release date.... 2months later later I get my hands on an imported foreign edition hardback.... view post


posted 22 Jun 2006, 17:06 in Philosophy DiscussionModern Soldiers by Curethan, Didact

"Always offer soldiers (and anyone else who is trained to kill) servile respect. Use caution when deciding how badly they want that discount." _Curethan's "Guide to Longevity" view post


posted 14 Feb 2007, 14:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSeswatha's dreams. by Curethan, Didact

Hehe. It seems that many have come to see Seswatha as a manipulative force that shades Kellhus, acting as he does from beyond the grave. Seswatha was a prodigy - but he was not Dunyain. The dreams, to me, are a basic premise - a powerful dweomer binding the memories of Seswatha to the pupils of his school through his mumified remians (genetic memory lends credence to this device when one accepts the existence of magic in Scott's world), thus preserving his memories so that his inheritors would recall the enormity of the peril that remains to trouble the world. The fact that they are the result of a manipulation of the onta (in this interpretation) leaves the possibility that they might be manipulated and changed by others, and this was the thrust of my initial post. Obviously, like all methods of storing and reviewing information, the interpretation of the dreams depends upon the viewer, and memory is after all profoundly fallible - but there is signifigance in the narration of changes observed in the dreams, more so to the reader, who is privvy to more information than Akka. Seswatha is dead; it's been a while since I read the books, but I am sure I recall a passage where it is revealed that the mandate schoolmen partake in a ritual involving a mumified heart thats subsequently 'gifts' them with the dreams. I can't imagine whose heart that would be if not Seswatha's. How could he be manipulating the dreams? How could he choose a succesor at this stage? Are you suggesting that he 'ascended', perhaps? I am quite sure that the creatures of the outside (such as the demons summoned by the Scarlet Spires) are not of this nature in the PoN, more likely they are a type of meme formed from the collective subconcious, and Seswatha's continued existence in any form would strike me as being highly unlikely. We can infer a few things from the dreams. Beginning with what we know - they are a narative tool to show the history of the mandate and the conflictwith the consult. They are also a tool of the mandate, not the other way round. The fact that the dreams become stronger as the consult begins to move and wield its power in the three seas is clear. As I have noted above - the changes in the dreams towards the end of TTT are in fact signifigant to the story, and the nature of those changes are the cumlmination of an evolution that has been well handled by the author. It is designed to provoke speculation, and I'm sure there will be a very good reason beyond the fact that Akka is almost completely emotionally destroyed at the end of PoN, instead of his usual trainwreck self. Re the 'Achamian becoming Seswatha' theory, I believe that perhaps Akka may be creating a personality within himself as 'Seswatha' becauss he feels that he is so poorly equipped to deal with his own situation - a form of personality fragmentation that can occur in severly traumatised people. In no way did I gain any sense of Seswatha's personality in the books - he was merely a historical character for me with no motivation beyond his struggle against the consult. struggle with the consult. view post


posted 14 Feb 2007, 14:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Amoral Khellus by Curethan, Didact

Well - determinism leaves no room for morality really. If your trying to break free of a deterministic reality, sooner or later your going to have to deal with it though. o.0 view post


posted 14 Feb 2007, 14:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Curethan, Didact

Just read the thread title. Lol. Only a supressed gay man would ask that question. Lets just say they buried him in a closet. view post


posted 14 Feb 2007, 14:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Curethan, Didact

*Still waiting for the Cnair swimsuit calender* view post


posted 14 Feb 2007, 14:02 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

Nowt to read... I bought a copy of Analog today. Sigh. view post


posted 14 Feb 2007, 14:02 in Author Q & Aa follow on to prince of nothing? by Curethan, Didact

Any news, rumours or lies regarding progress on AE? What about the status of Neuropath? view post


posted 14 Feb 2007, 22:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSeswatha's dreams. by Curethan, Didact

My thought here is that Akka believes himself to be possesed by Seswatha. His behaviour in his escape is consistent with someone affected by multiple personality disorder. Mentally unable to cope with his situation, he cedes self-control to a constructed personality that can - the waithi doll that frees him is tied to Akka's soul and its actions are most likely initiated by his desires. The point here is that Akka effectively frees himself - his belief that he is possesed by Seswatha is an extension of many examples of the dichotomy between Akka as a human and Akka as a mandate schoolman illustrated throughout the three books. As a man Akka sees himself as emotional, self doubting and weak (but basicly good) - as a schoolman he recognizes his duty, power and status as damned. In my veiw the retreat of his core personality in times of stress is an inevitable consequence of his inability to reconcile these two aspects of his personality. To me, your examples to refute Seswatha-within as a split personality component of Akka serve more to convince me that this is the angle that the author is using. For example, in our world hypnosis is an excellent tool if a psychologist wishes to comunicate with a recessive personality in such a patient. Supplied with a ready source of pre-existing memories and an empowered character, the development of such a syndrome in an individual as conflicted and in as much turmoil as Akka would be almost inevitable. The changing of the dreams could, in this interpretation, could be a logical consequence of this, as presented by Madness. However due to the narative clues involved I argue that something more is involved. The Seswatha meme is an interesting and entirely plausible concept, fuelled as it would be by the sorcerous power of the mandate, it would be charged with power - perhaps rivaling the potency of the meme of the Gods of men. However, such an entity or power would by its nature be motivated and shaped by the collective subconcious of its generators more than the personality and objectives of the original Seswatha. As presented, the dreams offer no insight into these aspects of Seswatha, only his actions and suffering. But if one accepts both these concepts, that there is a Seswatha-meme in the outside, and that Akka has created a split personality that embraces the mandate perception of this meme whilst simultateously being driven to reject his own core personality, I think that I begin to see how many believe that Akka will in AE effectively become Seswatha-reborn. However its worth noting that such an evolution would not be Seswatha-reborn, but a monstrous entity based upon a rejection of Akka's humanity comingled with centuries of relived suffering, fear and dread and possesing the powers of both the mandate and an entity of the outside given form in Earwa.... Perhaps Kellhus should have killed Akka when he had the chance. view post


posted 14 Feb 2007, 23:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtChorae, Consults and Salts. (Or "A Boy and His Bird) by Curethan, Didact

Yeh, that scene was just creepy. A final juxtaposition between innocence and the depravity embodied by the consult, with the 'proof' of the sorcerer's damnation in between, and the mystery of the chorae (the tears of god) as well. I believe that the child here is a throw away character, the scene is functionally included to show the consult collecting chorae after the battle. The chorae, to me, are a weapon/tool of the consult. view post


posted 15 Feb 2007, 06:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtChorae, Consults and Salts. (Or "A Boy and His Bird) by Curethan, Didact

Neat. I like idea 1a and b, it ties into my theory of why there are chorae studded onto the carapace of the no-god. It would be rather difficult for a wielder of the gnosis to create something like the chorae unaided if you think about it. For this reason I tend to believe that they were created by the non-men working together with the inchorai at some time in the distant past and are both tools and weapons. And in the hands of mundane men they have been exceptionally effective at carrying out the consult's desires without them revealing themselves in the slightest. Could this be the secret that Aurang refers to? view post


posted 15 Feb 2007, 13:02 in Off-Topic Discussionrelease dates by Curethan, Didact

*dances* view post


posted 15 Feb 2007, 14:02 in Off-Topic DiscussionScott Bakker ruined it for me. by Curethan, Didact

I see where your coming from. Looking for more challenging, mature, thoughtful and genre busting fantasy? Try these, or don't and miss out. No hackneyed prophecies, artifact quests or manifest destinies here, I promise. China Mieville. Takes fantasy back to the days of the Wizard of Oz then gives it an industrial revolution, a good dose of pathos and bad brown acid. This guy didn't win a slew of awards for nuttin. Steph Swainston. One of the best anti-heroes since Elric imo, and a fantasy world that is about as derivitive as u can get. The writing and plot aren't as good as Bakker, but the characterisation and inventiveness makes up for it. Jeff Vandemeer. I still get disturbed by the freaky mushroom people, and I don't think I have read any better prose. The story of how the guy got his work into print is damn interesting too. view post


posted 15 Feb 2007, 14:02 in Literature DiscussionOk so I feel like ive read every good author in existence. by Curethan, Didact

Ye-ah. John Marco. Liked it a lot. Just a shame the proantagonist was such a tosser, the story and villians were great. view post


posted 15 Feb 2007, 14:02 in Literature DiscussionWho is most offensive. by Curethan, Didact

Lol - Chris Bunch made the list cuz I lost IQ points from engaging with with writting style rather than the actual content (was there any?). Obviously no-one remembers the horseclans series, thank dog! Over twenty books on the series, I read half of one and it lives in my memory alongside the time I looked at a piece of toilet paper I had just used.... view post


posted 15 Feb 2007, 14:02 in Literature DiscussionA Song of Ice and Fire to Become TV Series by Curethan, Didact

Making an epic fantasy into a series was a dream of mine as a child. Hope I live to see it. Unfortunately, given GRRM's background as a TV script writer and the subject material they have to work with, I think that the adaption could be very succesful and result in a very good series. And we all know what happens to good TV series.... Series one, wins awards and creates a stir. Series two, wins more awards and has a devoted following.... Series three - cancelled! view post


posted 15 Feb 2007, 14:02 in Off-Topic DiscussionEragon by Curethan, Didact

Dragon.... Advance the letter d to e.... WARNING WARNING AVIOD AT ALL COSTS! DANGER DANGER! Thats as far as I got re the book. I succesfuly ignored the movie too. If you couldn't smell the truck load of crap coming, you deserved what u got. view post


posted 15 Feb 2007, 15:02 in Member Written WorksVogon Poetry by Curethan, Didact

[u:qc1081ii]All that I know.[/u:qc1081ii] All that I know is that, All that I know is, That all that I know, Is that all that… I know. Is that, All that I know? Is that all? That; I know. view post


posted 16 Feb 2007, 11:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtChorae, Consults and Salts. (Or "A Boy and His Bird) by Curethan, Didact

Natrium chloride? Surely you meant natruim chloratum.... :shock: I wonder if u knobbed the skinspy with sorcerous powers with a chorae, would he turn into pepper? The fact that the boy is collecting the salt and believes it will make him rich leads one to believe that the salt is either special and can be identified as the remains of a sorceror and has uses beyond the norm, or that salt is a valuable commodity in and of itself in Earwa - Roman soldiers were paid in salt as I recall. It's interesting the effect that the chorae had on Moenghus as opposed to sorcerors struck by them.... view post


posted 18 Feb 2007, 10:02 in Literature DiscussionOk so I feel like ive read every good author in existence. by Curethan, Didact

Yeh, Altered Carbon was great. The 2 sequels were quite good also - I've heard its been optioned as a movie too :D view post


posted 01 Mar 2007, 07:03 in Off-Topic DiscussionYour First Time by Curethan, Didact

Stormbringer, M. Moorcock. Read it when I was 11, straight after LotR. Gotta love the ending - never equalled. view post


posted 01 Mar 2007, 07:03 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

Speaking of Erikson stuff, any of you gurus know if Night of Knives is ever gunna hit the shelves? view post


posted 01 Mar 2007, 09:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Meeting between Kellhus & Moenghus? by Curethan, Didact

Really, I can't imagine why people think the dunyain will throw in with the consult - it seems largely based upon Kellhus' comment to Moe that he would eventually, being damned as they are. Re: ignoring the dunyain's oblective of creating a self moving soul - that would be a god imo, rather than merely an isolated soul.... And it seems to me that Kellhus is quite convinced of his divinity (glowing hands anyone?), and this would be his reason for opposing the consult. They have their no-god and the aim of closing off the world be killing of all souled beings, he seems to see himself as a divine saviour (maybe not tho, we have little insight into his true goals). I doubt that the dunyain would agree that he is the product they seek to create, and would probably try to destroy him if he interferes with them, probably reaching the same conclusions that he did regarding Moe. Finally, I would like to make the point that you cannot discount or accept anything they said to each other to be true, remember they both are master manipulators, and nowhere is there cause to be more careful about what u say than in the presence of another conditioned one. view post


posted 01 Mar 2007, 09:03 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by Curethan, Didact

Shonen Knife view post


posted 06 Mar 2007, 13:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

*Agrees with Anor* The crux of Seswatha falling out with Celomas was an affair with his wife, I believe - thus the possibility that Nau is his (Seswatha's) son. You could draw as many, if not more, parrallels between Kellhus and Seswatha if you were so inclined (manipulator, sorcerous prodigy etc). Kellhus' viewpoint and beliefs are ignored for a good reason in the narrative, however the events of the AE would most likely centre again on Kellhus as the basis of the storyline, as the series is, like the first, named on him and is set 30 years after the PoN, when Akka will be rather old - 70 or 80 would be possitively decrepit in the cultural setting of the 3 seas. view post


posted 06 Mar 2007, 14:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Meeting between Kellhus & Moenghus? by Curethan, Didact

Ok, my point was that Kellhus sees the haloes around his own hands - that he believes he is manifesting some divine power or destiny. Also, the consult would seek out any organization based on the power that Kellhus displays. Knowing what a threat they could present their potenial power must be either harnessed or destroyed - obviously a pre-emptive strike is the objective. Which leads to the question of what the Dunyain will/would do when found. All that the reader knows of them is what Kellhus has revealed to others and through his recollections of his training. Although that Kellhus usually speaks the truth in preference to a lie, as the truth is far more durable and poweful as a manipulative tool, it is still only the truth as he knows it, and it is worth noting that he was certainly not in the upper ranks of this organization, and would certainly not have know all that there is to know about the dunyain. Remember the Dunyain are masters of controlling their emotions, and of reading and manipulating the emotions and knowledge of others. This is certainly illustrated in the meeting between Mog and Kel. Although the Dunyain deny all infleunce of the outside world in their training in the course of trying to develop the self moving soul - they would obviously know of its existence... Kelhus stated that the Dunyain know nothing of sorcery, however they certainly used to... My point here is that the elders of the Dunyain could quite conceivably be a lot more knowledgable and powerful than many of you would think. Suppose that after a certain level of training and conditioning, one could be adjudged to have failed to become a self-moving soul, yet to have achieved a level of control and wisdom that one becomes suitable to train and refine tecniques for the next generation? At this point, rather than being purged as a failure, one would become an elder and learn more of the outside world, sorcery and other things that would otherwise taint the conditioning process and become a protector, teacher etc (where else do they get the subjects the learn to 'read faces' from) Obviously this theory does not explain why Kellhus was sent to track down Mog - unless the elders know alot more than anyone else.... but there could well have be a copy of the Cellomnian prophecies lying around in that citadel somewhere. This is obviously pretty far-fetched, but to me it makes more sense than the consult knocking on the door, having a bit of tea with the dunyain and convincing them that killing everyone else in the world, sealing it from the outside and becoming immortal, masterbating perverts is just as much fun (and almost the same thing) as breeding a transcendant superbeing :wink: view post


posted 07 Mar 2007, 09:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Meeting between Kellhus & Moenghus? by Curethan, Didact

I doubt the Dunyain would be able to field an army, let alone form ranks. Their habit of culling initiates would suggest a limited population. view post


posted 14 Mar 2007, 10:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

Tiddly tee. Much of the debate here lately centres around the premise of this thread. That the second apocolypse will mirror the first and specifically that Seswatha is the pivot of events and as such will be present in some form during the second. I made the point elsewhere that parallels could be drawn between Kellhus and Seswatha as easily as with Akka. It was quickly argued that Akka and Seswatha are more similar and to this I concede; however the thrust of my point is that it is a basic trait of human intelligence to drawn connections between people and events. The wise person exercises caution when doing so, or ends up with superstition instead of science. It is an admittedly oft used plot device in Epic Fantasy to use Prophecy, Heroes Re-incarnate, Manifest Destiny etc to resolve epic conflicts between good and evil; and these devices are usually hinted at if not spelt out as the story develops. In this series it is not so, Bakker introduces many standard archetypes then procedes to tear them apart. Witness Cnair, the indefatigable barbarian who lives by his people's savage code of nobility; Akka, the wise magician entrusted with knowledge and power to stop a forgotten evil; Esmenet, the hooker with the heart of gold. All these characters are standard fodder in genre fiction, but defy their archetypes. The Celomanian prophecy, make of it what you will, is presented early in standard type - but it means little or nothing in the context of the PoN. In a 'normal' genre fantasy Kellhus would have been the simple village boy who discovered the magic sword, his heritage and a nation waiting on his return.... The first apocolypse is passed, its history is just that and the antagonists involved are largely gone and done with (on the side of niceness that is). Was it not Seswatha's role to rally humanity and providing arcane support to its rulers? Done and taken care of, and not by the mandate or Akka. The second apocolypse is a different kettle of fish, and the sagas and the Mandate are Seswatha's legacy and a tool that may used against the consult, but a history of the first world war (the war to end all wars) could not save us from the second... PoN was the first installment of the story of the second apocolypse, the story has truly begun already - PoN is a foreshadowing of the rest of the story, the sagas are flavouring. If things pan out as Madness suggests, with Akka and Esmenet's child off on a quest to recover the heron spear, I won't just be disapointed, I'll eat my hat! Bugger the Seswatha = Akka arguement, let's move on to the Bakker = Eddings arguement. They're both authors, both have written multi-volume, ground-breaking fantasy series.... OMG!!!! :( (apologies to Mr Bakker) view post


posted 15 Mar 2007, 07:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

@ Madness. It's not really a misconception of your writing, my friend. My inference is drawn from what I see as the broad theme of this thread; speculation that the characters from PoN have been shaped to be new versions of the characters from the sagas and the Mandati dreams - i.e. Achamain is the new Seswatha, Kellhus fills Cellomas II's role etc leading to the conclusion that the events of the 2nd apocolypse will mirror the first (or why bother to fill the roles of the same daramatis personae?) Thus my inference from your suggestion of Akka, Kellhus & the unborn child in those roles - I do apologise for leaping to that conclusion... (I also sprained my metaphorical ankle doing it) Your post specifically supports that the sagas are a foreshadowing and you support the arguement that the characters of PoN are in effect filling these roles. The way the sagas etc are used in PoN are, to me, tools whereby the character's can compare themselves and their situations to those of the past, assuaging the fear, impotence and loneliness that they would other feel. They are a neccasary tool of exposition to develop and move the story along. As I tried to point out, I believe way too much signifigance is being attatched to the parralels and similarities therein vis a vis speculation on the events of AE. (and some of my attempts at demonstrative examples ;) - I have a sad tendency to take other's points to ridiculous extremes to demonstrate their flaws... I forget what that argumentative tool is called, but it often backfires) All that said, it did start me wondering about the heron spear and how anyone is gunna kick the No-god's butt if they don't find it or stop him from being revived. I'm starting to worry that I may have to eat my hat after all :oops: @ Harrol. As l am a damp squib you may need to provide accelerant. You do realise tho, as a moderator, that after conducting my public burning you will need to ban urself for flaming (or will it be me who's flaming?) ;) That said the charges are fair and I accept ur judgement (if u can catch me, U do realise I ride a kangaroo.... heehee). Hang on, there's some Edding's acolytes at the door... view post


posted 15 Mar 2007, 21:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

Pffft. :roll: view post


posted 16 Mar 2007, 07:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

Lol. You people are amusing. Let me spell it out for you. The comparison was intended to be outrageous, demonstrating that the theme of repeating past events in a new narrative is well below what we should expect from AE. By stretching the ideas presented by others that the character's in PoN are being developed to take on the roles of historical figures in the sagas I took that to the conclusion that the events of the past will also be repeated... (or why bother resurrecting ancient heroes in this way?) Which I DON"T agree with. Eddings is a writer who has taken this fantasy cliche to its mind-numbing nadir, thus my comparison was designed to illustrate how unlikely I think this to be. Deliberate irony, people. To sum up my arguement in simple points. 1. Yes, there are distinct similarities between the characters in PoN and individuals how opposed the consult during the 1st apocolypse. As far as so & so being the new such & such, this means nothing. 2. Bakker has and will continue to use familiar fantasy cliches such as prophecy and destiny before tearing them into new shapes, with the intended result of confounding the archetypes perpetrated within the genre (by authors such as Eddings) to make something fresh. 3. Speculation based on ignoring the above points and suggesting that the plot of AE is foreshadowed by the sagas seems whimsical at best. P.S. I'm still not on fire (yes, it's March 16 - in the evening). Your moderator-jitsu is weak, Harrol. view post


posted 18 Mar 2007, 03:03 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]The Aspect-Emperor by Curethan, Didact

Ye, neat! view post


posted 18 Mar 2007, 03:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

Well, that isn't quite how it happened, is it. There I was, arseing about in the forums, ingesting the pearls of wisdom I found there when I noticed Harrol, resplendent in his tall crown made of discarded bus tickets (he keeps the tickets on himself with the ego-glue secreted by his diseased mind). He was throwing money around and cackling, which made me quite curious. I moved closer to see what he was doing. As I approached, he began screaming some nonsense about heretics, turned and dropped his pants before raising a match before his buttocks. I managed to use my wizard powers to teleport to a safe distance beyond his myopic gaze just before a massive gout of flame errupted from him. That's some super-power u got there mate! Anyway, there must have been some kind of follow through, because he seemed quite satisfied with the greasy stain of ash he left.... view post


posted 19 Mar 2007, 14:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Sagas as Foreshadowing? by Curethan, Didact

:wink: I'm sure you will... Just remember to serve it cold please, hehe. view post


posted 19 Mar 2007, 14:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSeswatha's dreams. by Curethan, Didact

I feel it's moot really. Wether Seswatha were possesing Akka or Akka really experienced a mental schism where he believed he was Seswatha, the scene could be written in exactly the same way. Remember when treating MPD, doctors often use mundane hypnotism to access submerged personalities. As for armies of Seswathas.... just eep. view post


posted 20 Mar 2007, 03:03 in Literature DiscussionHarold Lamb by Curethan, Didact

Say, what genre is this? Historical fiction? I'm looking for something different to read, and I might give this a try. A quick perusal of my local bookstore revealed nothing, but mebe I was lookin in the wrong place. I have some specialty bookstores nearby ... military, non-fiction and sci-fi/crime. view post


posted 21 Mar 2007, 02:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSeswatha's dreams. by Curethan, Didact

Hehe, me too. Might be time to give em a re-read I think, what with the impnding release of 'The Great Ordeal'. Unfortunately I've lent them to a friend atm, so can only speak from memory. I believe that we specifically know that the last dream we experience with Akka in TTT is the only one where we are specifically shown a difference; i.e. the emperor will not take up the spear against the No-god, instead becoming drawn into the No-God's mantra of despair. This is the interesting one that kind of might suggest that Kellhus will not oppose the No-god at the final juncture (at least to Akka). But I believe there is a conversation before this point when Akka is talking to his old Mandate teacher and mentions that the dreams have changed. view post


posted 22 Mar 2007, 09:03 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]The Aspect-Emperor by Curethan, Didact

Any idea of a release date for the hardcover? I did a quick google search and could only find UK release date for the paperback - 1 March 2008... view post


posted 24 Mar 2007, 08:03 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]The Aspect-Emperor by Curethan, Didact

quote]Throughout this and other threads regarding The Aspect-Emperor, I've maintained in my speculations that in a world as real as the one Cû'jara Cinmoi has created, future events could be discerned and would, inevitably, be decided by the personalities and relationships of his characters. I don't believe I'd suggested, as Curethan - in a fashion - asserted I did, that the events of the Second Apocalypse would mirror the First but that the personalities and relationships of the Second would mirror the First. [/quote] ? So the characters and their relationships will determine what happens, and the characters and their relationships mirror those individuals from the first apocolypse. OK. But things will work out differently??? That's not what you seem to imply. It is an interesting point you make about the characters and their relationships deciding the future of Earwa. This is one of the central themes that is explored in the series (and in many of my other favourites). Does a man control his own path or are events determined by destiny, the gods or in this case - the darkness that comes before. The question of fate vs free will. view post


posted 25 Mar 2007, 13:03 in Philosophy DiscussionLife and Death by Curethan, Didact

Hey, well said. I count myself an aetheist, but I have great respect for those who have faith and act in a manner consistent with the noble teachings that most every religon has at their heart. I often have this same argument with non-religous friends of mine, and its nice to see another person who will stand up against these preconceptions. It certainly is a common archetype of aetheist that you describe, those who embrace the reflex of 'what I believe is true, and your beliefs are wrong' - which certainly is funny considering that aethiests by definition, believe nothing. Personally, I envy those who trust that they are a part of something greater - but I find that my own search for meaning within leads me to try to behave outwardly very similarly to the way a good christian, jew, buddhist or muslim would, so why would I deride them? view post


posted 26 Mar 2007, 06:03 in Philosophy DiscussionLife and Death by Curethan, Didact

I did not mean to imply that your views were aethiestic either Jamara - I was merely commenting on the observation that Buckethead made and my experience thereof. In the interests of hairsplitting - I think you will find that it is the theory of evolution, as a scientific law must proven by repeatable experiment and empirical data - which you can't do in this case. It certainly is widely accepted and consistent, and no scientificly acceptable theory opposes it, but a theory it remains. Your last statement reflects the hubris of many folk - especially those who are aware of the fact that they are more intelligent than many of their fellows - succumb to. And it is here that the narrow mindedness that buckethead refered to comes in. Having rejected a world view as flawed, you abandon it and declare that any of its adherants are similarly flawed and are either stupid or weak because they cannot see what is clear to you. But perhaps you are wrong, or you are merely overlooking the point of faith. Faith is what gives you the strength to believe in the ephemeral - as a pagan, you must believe in some concepts outside of yourself that cannot be proven - the existence of a goddess, the soul or karma as examples. Can you provide a scientific proof for any of these things? Or do you merely see their existance in the same way a christian might feel Jesus in their heart? To judge others because of their beliefs or percieved intelligence is both dangerous and silly. Judge others by their actions, for that is the measure of their worth. view post


posted 26 Mar 2007, 06:03 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]The Aspect-Emperor by Curethan, Didact

You got me, Madness. I wasn't really arguing against you - merely pointing out the way that I felt the general speculation was turning. The assertion that the 2nd apolocolypse would mirror the 1st was mine anyway; designed as an example of where taking parallels between the characters therein would lead if taken too far (in that case to an spurious and unlikely conclusion) - which I still believe many have. My main thrust was that the comparisons and parralels you see are important more to characters such as Akka and Esme and how they see themselves than they are to the future narrative. Its an entirely personal assesment that cannot be succesfuly argued one way or the other (unless you're Scott). The role of the dunyain in future events and what has already occured is where most people will be surprised, in my opinion. I was speculating on this myself the other day, and I wonder if anyone could help enlighten me on something. I don't have my copies of the series at the moment, but can anyone recall any hints or reasons given that Moenghus left the Dunyain in the first place? I'd appreciate it. view post


posted 26 Mar 2007, 09:03 in Philosophy DiscussionLife and Death by Curethan, Didact

My hairsplitting comment was only about what constitutes a scientific theory as opposed to a scientific law... The other comments you have highlighted regard generalisations - individuals deserve to be judged on individual merits. Religious stereotyping is widespread and rarely challenged. I really don't think that you personally believe in reinforcing these stereotypes, judging by your clarifications - but I do apluade Buckethead's challenge of these stereotypes in this thread, and added my own ideas because this is a public forum - not because I think you said anything particularly reprehensible. :) view post


posted 28 Mar 2007, 06:03 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]The Aspect-Emperor by Curethan, Didact

Thanks, Mithfanion. The question was why the Dunyain sent him out in the first place - you've supplied the answer there - "scouting". ....very interesting.... *narrows eyes thoughtfully* view post


posted 28 Mar 2007, 06:03 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]"Murderous Children" by Curethan, Didact

Hmm, I think Cnaiur's child will be very much his genetic father's son. Look at it this way - he is eldest (heir apparent), aknowledged as Kellhus' child, but probably very aware of his lack of the inborn talents of the younger children. Also there would be the underlying awareness in people such as Esmenet of his true parentage and a certain expectation and subconcious 'encouragement' for him to mirror Cnaiur's personality. Add to this mix the likely unhealthy environment the children of the most powerful (and probably busiest) man in the world.... Well, did we really expect these kids to grow up to be cherubs? view post


posted 28 Mar 2007, 07:03 in Philosophy DiscussionLife and Death by Curethan, Didact

K, just to clear this up I'll quote from the NC state university's website... [quote:2olbbyg8]scientific law: A logical, mathematical statement describing a consistency that applies to all members of a broad class of phenomena when specific conditions are met. Examples of scientific laws: Faraday’s Law of electromagnetic induction, Coulomb’s Law of electrostatic attraction, Dalton’s Law of partial pressures, Boyle’s Gas Law.[/quote:2olbbyg8] [quote:2olbbyg8]scientific theory: An explanation of why and how a specific natural phenomenon occurs. A lot of hypotheses are based on theories. In turn, theories may be redefined as new hypotheses are tested. Examples of theories: Newton’s Theory of Gravitation, Darwin’s Theory of Evolution, Mendel’s theory of Inheritance, Einstein’s Theory of Relativity.[/quote:2olbbyg8] Sorry, I'm a nerd ... :oops: view post


posted 28 Mar 2007, 08:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestions that haunt me after just reading TTT. by Curethan, Didact

1. why kill Moenghus? The explanation Kellhus gives is that Moenghus [i:rowvk332]specifically[/i:rowvk332] has committed such crimes (i.e. sorcery at the very least) that he is damned and would seek immortality and the protection from the 'outside' in the same way as the inchoroi. (How this argument applies to all dunyain is murky to say the least...) Kellhus sees himself as not corruptable in this way obviously - in my mind because he believes he is chosen by some 'divine' power. It's more the way he [i:rowvk332]doesn't[/i:rowvk332] kill Mo that intrigues me... Kellhus delivers a mortal blow then leaves him for Cnaiur (proof of Kellhus' nascent morality?) 2. The sequence between Cnaiur and Mo - this is also interesting - its deliberate ambiguity suggests that something more has happened... remember we don't really know what happens to sorcerers who fall to chorae - and perhaps Mo - although weak - is also very crafty in his use of sorcery.... 'such was the force that had possesed them' refers to both of them - not just Mo. Then Cnaiur cries 'not again - how could u leave me...' well, did he die, or leave.... And Mo would have been well aware of the fact he was already dying, and the proximity of the chorae.... 3. Achamain not dying - the ciphrang is a creature of the outside - they are bound to complete the tasks assigned them before leave the needle world, as I recall. Defying its orders seems [b:rowvk332]very [/b:rowvk332]strange. And it flew a longs ways before dropping Akka somewhere that he would be cared for... 4. the ciphrang visiting little Mo - see above... seems like building clues that the 'creatures/powers' of the outside are indeed affecting events in Earwa. Mebe he was checking to see if the child was Kellhus' or not. 5. Aurang's secret - I think the litle boy was doomed basicly, kind of like the secret some psycho tells you about what's for dinner... 6. Nau's prize - that woulda been some chick he loved. [/b] view post


posted 29 Mar 2007, 04:03 in Philosophy DiscussionLife and Death by Curethan, Didact

Please stop. I'm not disagreeing with the theory at all. You called it a scientific law, which it just isn't. view post


The Bonfire posted 29 Mar 2007, 13:03 in Literature DiscussionThe Bonfire by Curethan, Didact

Read it? Hated it? Want revenge? Throw it on the bonfire.... I'll start the fun with Terry Goodkind's Wizard's First Rule. *phwoosh!* ...careful not to breath the smoke... 451 degrees of relief. view post


posted 31 Mar 2007, 01:03 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]"Murderous Children" by Curethan, Didact

[quote:3ozw921h]I do not believe that Moënghus's true parentage would make him inferior to any of Kellhus's children. [/quote:3ozw921h] Well, Cnaiur may have been exceptional - but I think the eugenics practiced by the Dunyain would outstrip the natural selection of the Sclyvendi, also Serwe would hardly be a candidate for the Dunyain breeding program.... and Kellhus' children have the blood of the nonmen in them... view post


posted 02 Apr 2007, 05:04 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Kellhus's State of Mind by Curethan, Didact

Why send anyone out 'scouting'? Escpecially if they would then very likely be considered 'contaminated' and defective... Hmm, mebe Mo was considered - expendable ;) view post


Those wacky Dunyain, sorcery and other ramblings posted 06 Apr 2007, 03:04 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Those wacky Dunyain, sorcery and other ramblings by Curethan, Didact

I think the Dunyain and speculation thereof deserves its own thread, seeing as it keeps taking over other threads. Some things about the Dunyain just don't add up, and this is not the case with the world that Scott has built, which is why they nag at me so. Many seem satisfied with what they know, and seem happy to accept them as they are portrayed by Kellhus. However consider this, the Dunyain are [i:3cgwdqf2]conditioned[/i:3cgwdqf2], they walk conditioned ground - up to a point... Someone is preparing their conditioning, accumulating knowledge over the centuries to improve and advance their treining. Compare modern teaching, your lecturing restricts what u are taught - primarily to the subject he has mastered - parcelling out tidbits at a time, growing your knowledge until you are ready to master deeper mysterys. Beyond that however, he is aware of many other things pursuant and otherwise to your education that you are ignorant of and will not learn in his class if at all - teaching methodologies, current research, changes in established hypothoses etc. Assuming that Kellhus' information on the Dunyain (and thus what we know) is complete is very unlikely. Just because Kellhus and Mo knew nothing of sorcery means nothing. The Dunyain's goal does not require it - in fact its elimination from their training is axiomatic. They seek enlightenment through reason - the logos, mastering the darkness that comes before - defeating the bonds the heart. Their teachers are obviously failures, yet they advance the knowledge of their sudents. At a certain point, obviously, a dunyain student can be considered to have completed his training - yet has not become a self moving soul, and is not executed as a failure, becoming a teacher to the next generation. At this point, knowledge of the outside, history, sorcery etc would no longer be required to be forbidden, would in fact be beneficial to preserving the Dunyain. Anyway, here's a couple of the points I've been considering recently. Add more. 1. Dunyain means 'truth' in ancient kunuric, the ascetic order was well founded, and had probably established their primary goals by the time they came to Ishual, a non-men mansion in the shadow of Golgotteroth, (a strange direction for refugees to head in..) and co-incidentaly the refuge of the Anasurimbor Dynasty. I think its safe to assume that it is well hidden, and not just by its location - but by sourcerous non-men wards as well. Why Isual? No-one else has just 'stumbled' across it... 2. Why send Mo (a star pupil) out scouting? From what I've said above one of the teachers or the Pragma himself would be far more logical. Comtamination of a student would usually lead to death - but Moenghus is instead allowed to leave - potentialy exposing the Dunyain and Ishual, a far greater risk than some wandering Sranc. Mebe Mo was sent just in case there might have been something to those ancient prophecies etc - at least they could keep Kelhus that way... it occures to me that breeding would have been ordered amongst the Dunyain, and that Kellhus have only just been born when Mo was sent on his little 'mission'. view post


posted 06 Apr 2007, 03:04 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Kellhus's State of Mind by Curethan, Didact

Back to the original thread topic. I was re-readin the Kellhus sections of TTT the other day, curious about some things like his confrontations with Aurang and Mo, and his belief that he is 'chosen'. He definately believes he is the harbinger, but he also believes that Mo would be damned for his sins, while he apparently would not. He seems to try to offer Aurang absolution at one point, and demonstrates examples of protecting those close to him when it is not the shortest path - example Esme. He seems sad when he notes that Esme does not yet love him - only worships him. My point is that reading thru only the Kellhus bits it seems that the theme is love. This wasn't really what I expected or felt from my first time thru the book. I was kinda thinking he probly was mad, what with hearing voices, talking to 'the world' and the no-god, seeing haloes etc I mean, why is Mo damned, but Kellhus isn't? I think I know now. I think Kellhus has embraced his humanity - abandonded the path of the dunyain, and has become much more fallilable as the cost. view post


posted 10 Apr 2007, 11:04 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Kellhus's State of Mind by Curethan, Didact

Yeh, I agree that Kelhus' veracity may in general be doubted as Scott is definately trying to keep thins opaque - but, Kelhus usually speaks truth, as it is far more useful for manipulation. Specifically in the encounter with Aurang, he later internally aknowledges lying to Esme afterwards to lessen the impact of what he told Aurang, as Esme was concious of the encounter. I think its pretty much assured that he believes that he is the harbinger, and several times he comments internally about the haloes. He also reflects about wandering the permutations of the TT where Mo betrays him, and why else would he kill him? view post


posted 24 Apr 2007, 07:04 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Achamian the No God? (TWP, pg 12)... by Curethan, Didact

Professor, my speculation on the no-god mirrors yours. Harrol makes a good point on 'the questions' that are posed by the no-god... The nature of chorae is key imo. If the souls in the carapace were those of the unborn (i.e. cleansed of most memory by some kind aspect of the cycle of souls - which I would assume to be some kind of re-incarnation thing that includes an afterlife of some kind in the outside) then that might explain their effect on those who bear the mark, who according to Kellhus' discussion with Akka (and to lesser degree, evidenced by the dreams) recall in some way their previous existences. Also, note that the inchoroi pulled the same kind of trick on the non-men before the creation of the no-god (the womb plague), and that chorae are a creation of the branch of sorcery that deals with paradox and contradiction (I forget the proper term). I'm sure the no-god does something 'useful' with all those souls. As for keeping the scylvendi, well the inchoroi still want something to play with when the world is sealed. I believe that when Aurang confronts Kellhus in TTT he himself is described as the tactical nous of the consult, and Kellhus attempts to bait him by mentioning how he 'failed' the no-god. As for worshiping something of one's own creation... people do it all the time. view post


posted 01 May 2007, 09:05 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Curethan, Didact

Hehe. Cnaiur as a roomy. Nice. Crazy as he was, I felt sorry for him. Conphas was a psychopath and much worse than Cnaiur. Interesting, however, that Kellhus could counter Conphas easily, yet Cnaiur's madness had a kind of quantum effect that Kehlus could not predict and was even in awe of. The consult need Cnaiur - he'll be back imo and a showdown with older-Kellhus during the great ordeal would be sweet. view post


posted 08 Jun 2007, 12:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka and Kelhus will be the Greatest Ordeal by Curethan, Didact

The first time that dream is related we actually do reach the point where Anaxophus raises and uses the Heron spear. And Mengeda is where the No-god fell. So... Also, Seswatha's dreams are definately sourcerous, as the mandati use them to find each other with the cants of calling. The fact that they touch Seswatha's mumified heart and then recieve the visions/dreams also belies the possibility that it is simple hypnosis. view post


Kellhus - a tool of the Gods or just a tool? posted 08 Jun 2007, 12:06 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKellhus - a tool of the Gods or just a tool? by Curethan, Didact

I have been re-reading the series and I came upon a startling tidbit that I thought to share. In TDtCB, when he and Cnaiur take Serwe into their group, Cnaiur is raping her when Kellhus experiences a feeling of outrage. He wonders where this comes from, and subsequently his instruction in mastering the 'legion within' is related. This flashback basicly shows how the dunyain master the emotions that 'come before' and that to fail this lesson would result in death. Given that Kelhus has not been away from Ishual long enough for his conditioning to lapse, we can be fairly sure that this is not a flaw in his training or the breakdown thereof. Serwe - from the outset - sees Kellhus as the instrument of the outside, and it is the circumfixion (i.e. her death) that defies the perception of logos and seemingly transforms Kelhus... This small event that I completely missed the first time around casts a lot of differrent light on other aspects of the story for me. I wonder if it slipped past many others, or if you think there is another explanation? view post


posted 09 Jun 2007, 03:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka and Kelhus will be the Greatest Ordeal by Curethan, Didact

No description of the spear, but a great cracking sound is heard as it breaks the carapace. 1. Yer true - but remember how Moenghus sent for Kellhus, sending sorcerous dreams wasn't it? 2. Yeh, not in and of itself - however I got the impression that once you touched the heart you lived partially in to perceptual realities. As far as hypnosis goes, it is merely the act of manipulating someone who has allowed themselves to be put into a lucid and suggestive state. For Kellhus, you could say that what he does is like an uber-hypnosis - but that kind of detracts from what he does. For mere hypnosis to achieve what u suggest, sorcery would definately need to be involved. 3. Kellhus is able to get the Gnosis only because of the Celomomian Prophecy. If he was not Seswatha's harbinger, he never would have got it. The root of why he could get Akka to teach him is in the darkness that comes before... he makes himself appear as the the best hope of preventing the 2nd apocolypse (and he probly is). You might say its a fortuitous correspondance of cause. Personally I think the dreams serve a purpose, to warn - and they are mutable, changed and influenced by the balance of powers from the outside and the conflict within the host. view post


posted 09 Jun 2007, 06:06 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKellhus - a tool of the Gods or just a tool? by Curethan, Didact

Thats the perception I had too, Harrol. But the flashback scene with the Pragma describes how the Dunyain master these emotions by dominating them, not eradicating them. If their control of their 'legion' is not absolute, they will fail, and will not survive the labyrinth. The Dunyain understand their emotions, or they would not be able to manipulate those who are ruled by emotion the way they do. It is the fact that they control their emotions absolutely, not the other way round that enables understanding and use of the logos. Here's the passage, I was referring to; "Kellhus watched while the Scylvendi took her again. With her whimpers, her suffocated cries, it seemed the ground beneath slowly spun, as though the stars had stopped thier cycle and the earth had begun to wheel instead. There was something . . . something [i:3dq063zl]here[/i:3dq063zl], he could sense. Something outraged. From what darkness had this come?" In subsequent scenes throughout the series, there are mysterious happenings that may or may not relate to the outside/ the god/s - all involving the earth... the earthquake that precedes the holy war's march, the ground of mengeda that shades men's dreams and spits up bones, the way that Kellhus talks to the earth itself late in TTT.... It's interesting to note the subtle shadings that colour our perceptions of the story in the re-reading, and whether or not things like this really offer insight into the ultimate direction of the tale, its one of the many fine details that makes this series a modern classic in my eyes, rather than just another fantasy serial. view post


posted 10 Jun 2007, 16:06 in General DiscusssionEarwian like worlds (like ie. Kane series) by Curethan, Didact

Yeh, I can see how world of Solomon Kane bears some resemblance in tone. Also the Young kingdoms from the Elric Saga is somewhat reminiscent, I feel - with the Melnibonians kind of in the place of the non-men. view post


posted 12 Jun 2007, 08:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Achamian by Curethan, Didact

He's a fully fledged battle-mage. Not being part of the quorum is undoubtedly due to his nature rather than abilities. Ask the scarlet spires or the demon he whuped if u don't believe me. view post


posted 13 Jun 2007, 06:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka and Kelhus will be the Greatest Ordeal by Curethan, Didact

I can't see it ever coming to Kellhus vs Akka personally, but don't forget how Akka was taken by the Spires - a concert of Gnostic sorcerers and the element of surprise could theoretically take down Kellhus too. There aint no such thing as invincible when even Mog can get whupped by a doophus with a stick. view post


posted 13 Jun 2007, 07:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Achamian by Curethan, Didact

Yeh, taking an army that far north is a lot further than going to shimeh. And a lot of the men of fighting age were kinda dead by the end of TTT. Also think about how the whole society of the 3 seas would be changed by Kellhus' assencion to power. Thats a LOT of re-organizing. There would be resistance, reluctance to change etc. To weld together a functiong empire would take at least 20 years. Then you also have to prepare for war - and this includes equiping as many sorcerers as possible with the gnosis - so I would imagine the Mandate will be busy with that. (Yeh, Akka mentions that it was always Seswatha's plan to share the gnosis after the Celomoman prophecy was fulfilled in WP about a 3rd of the way in) - 20 years is fast imo. The 2nd Apocolypse mirroring the first? ugh - I think/hope not. The Scylvendi might be scattered and broken (note they are still raiding Nansur directly after the battle of Kiyuth) but the numbers of Sranc in the north is even greater than in the time of the 1st Apoxylisp. view post


posted 14 Jun 2007, 06:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka and Kelhus will be the Greatest Ordeal by Curethan, Didact

Hehe Harrol ;) was referring to Anaxophus actually. Oh yeh - teleportation - that completely outweighs the element of surprise - not. You dont see the bullet that kills you. But seriously, we dont know the limitations of Kellhus' powers, or even if there's a way to counter them. We know that he needs an army and an empire to assault Golgotteroth and prevent the resurection of Mog, and we can fairly assume that he will seek to take the shortest path. Ergo, knowing his own limitations, he ain't that powerful. It would seem that maybe he's not the first to use sorcery to teleport... remember the cishaurim's assasination of the previous leader of the SS. From Eleazareus' recollection it certainly seemed like they teleported into the chamber. Funnily enough they forgot to teleport away... view post


posted 14 Jun 2007, 07:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka....The Chanv addict? by Curethan, Didact

Not to mention that Chanv seems to bear some connection to the consult - its effects seem very similar to the changes worked upon the non-men by the Inchoroi (no babies, lengthened life, sharpened intellect, loss of emotion) - perhaps its made from nonman blood :shock: view post


posted 15 Jun 2007, 07:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka and Kelhus will be the Greatest Ordeal by Curethan, Didact

It's moot really. Kellhus manipulates Akka so that he doesn't report him to the quorum, but in one scene Akka recalls how Seswatha decreed that the Gnosis should be shared in order to arm the world of men when the 2nd apocolypse is imminent. Seeing as Kellhus is the fulfillment of the Celomommian prophecy and therefore the harbinger - there is no compulsion not to give up the Gnosis anymore - one simply has to decide who to teach. The fact that the gnosis can't be extracted through cants or torture is merely a testament to the power of the shared experiences of Seswatha rather than a sorcerous 'block'. view post


posted 16 Jun 2007, 00:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka and Kelhus will be the Greatest Ordeal by Curethan, Didact

I dont recall anyone using sorcery to become invisible either.... view post


posted 16 Jun 2007, 00:06 in The Darkness That Comes Beforeinrau by Curethan, Didact

I think it was merely the suggestions that Akka had made that shook Inrau's faith in Maithenent. Probably the fact that he could tell Akka was a sorceror (only the few can see the few) in particular. Damn - there are a quite a few post-WP spoilers on this thread. view post


posted 20 Jun 2007, 11:06 in Author Q & AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Curethan, Didact

Those who believe see the haloes. In TTT even Akka sees them occaisionaly. The abilities of a prophet are mythical - so we don't know what Sejenus really could/could not do. The only example of hieromancy that I recall is the story where he restored a man's eyesight - which Xin used to illustrate that Kellhus was not a real prophet - because he could not heal. As I recall it is stated somewhere that true prophecies are occasionally made when a great name is dying. The prophet Sejenus re-interpreted the Tusk - thus laying down the curcuit of men's lives for the next umpteen years - a different kind of prophecy if u see my meaning. As TTT comes to its conclusion Kellhus talks about how he will re-interpret the tusk - thus beginning a new era. In doing so he becomes a true prophet as well as aspect-emperor. The beliefs of men shape the powers of the outside in reverse I believe - Akka explained to Cnaiur how the outside is able to leak in through the souls of those who become insane - and this is borne out when Cnauir himself has lost it and the Nansur who subdue him at Joktha see the aspect of Gilgaol - even as he speaks with that power's own voice in the fight. "For a thousand years I have stalked you..." etc I'm not sure what to make of the no-god speaking to Kellhus. We know that Tsuramah is a construct of the Tekne, and it follows that he would be similar to the skin-spies in that he exists only within the circle of the world as they do - this would be consistent with his powers and purpose. The fact that he is dead kind of precludes him talking to anyone, except maybe as an echo - perhaps he exists in a nascent state as the Consult works to resurrect him, but I very much doubt that he is an active participant in the events that occur - you would exepct that he would be in contact with Aurax and Aurang before he went checking out Kellhus. view post


posted 22 Jun 2007, 08:06 in Author Q & AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Curethan, Didact

It would be kinda illogical to seal the world from the outside using something that is itself connected to the outside. I guess that doesn't exclude the use of sorcery in Mog's manufacture, but my point was that he is highly unlikely to have any kind of existence beyond death - I see his resurrection more as a kind of 'repair job'. Yes, definitely more than a machine, but so are the skin-spies (Mog's just a few orders of magnitude beyond then again). Kellhus can see the darkness that somes before - as he aproaches Kyudea this is explicitly described - and so maybe the comunication he has with the no-god is more like listening to his echoes... But then Kellhus also talks to the world at large - asking questions that he sees as being answered. view post


posted 26 Jun 2007, 03:06 in Author Q & AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Curethan, Didact

I think much upon the same lines, PP. I think that Tsuramah is more of a 'soul-black hole' than an oversoul however - kind of like a maxi-chorae (remember they got distrubuted to men by the inchoroi but are covered in non-man runes - kinda backs the sorcery mixed with tekne thing imo). The fact that Mog seems to have a vestigle personality is merely incidental with this theory - and doesn't suggest anything of itself, you would hardly expect a skin-spy to leave a ghost. It follows naturaly to me that the consult would worship the zenith of their objectives and technology given form rather than some kind of traditional diety - anyway he probably looks like a giant penis covered in razorblades under that carapace, which would totally explain things from that angle. view post


posted 26 Jun 2007, 03:06 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWho was Kellus talking to? by Curethan, Didact

More like he's talking to the god/gods or the world at large - I recall he asks a question and the answer comes in the form of a twig that he pulls from his sandle - one leaf is green and waxy the other is brown and dead. Then he goes and kills Moenghus. Why do the consult need to exterminate men (and non-men)? To prevent the god/s (who hold them damned) from reaching them - or perhaps to exterminate them too by proxy. The fact that they already seem to be functionally immortal doesn't seem to have given them an out. Stands to reason that if the god/s can infleunce things within Earwa that they would try and get Kellhus onside. Heck - mebe the TTT is what's doing the talking, perhaps its become a power in its own right. (Ok thats crazy - time for a cup o tea and a lie-down) view post


posted 27 Jun 2007, 07:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka....The Chanv addict? by Curethan, Didact

Well spotted. view post


posted 27 Jun 2007, 08:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Akka and Kelhus will be the Greatest Ordeal by Curethan, Didact

Interesting that Akka has written the compendium of the 1st holy war during this 20year break. That would suggest that he managed to find refuge in some place - probably far from the 3 seas - Atraithu, perhaps? view post


posted 02 Jul 2007, 13:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAre there female skin spies? by Curethan, Didact

I have read a Q&A with Scott where he catagorically stated that there are no female skin spies. Also the taking of faces seems fairly common amongst the creatures of the Consult - Mekeritig has a cloak made of faces so that he can remember those who gave him a hard time and the Sranc like making things out of human skin - perhaps it was a method of 'memorising' Geshrunni's features - we known it takes a while for skin spies to mimmick a subject properly. view post


posted 03 Jul 2007, 01:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAre there female skin spies? by Curethan, Didact

Yeh - the height, build etc. But we are never told specificly how they get the face right - even a trained artist requires a model when painting a likeness - it doesn't seem too unlikely that copying the specifics of a face (which is ever the prime subject of scrutiny) would require some study/preperation. There are no examples of a skinspy copying one straight of the bat. view post


Kellhus + the Daimos posted 03 Jul 2007, 01:07 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Kellhus + the Daimos by Curethan, Didact

I wonder what, if anything we can expect Kellhus to learn from the Scarlet spires before the AE begins - I was thinking - what he would make of the Daimos.... view post


posted 03 Jul 2007, 07:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAre there female skin spies? by Curethan, Didact

10 points :D - can't argue with that. view post


posted 05 Jul 2007, 05:07 in Author Q & AQuestion about the ending of TWP *Spoiler Warning* by Curethan, Didact

"He looked into their wasted faces, answered their fevered eyes. He brandished Serwe's burning heart." p598 TWP view post


posted 09 Jul 2007, 00:07 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Kellhus + the Daimos by Curethan, Didact

My point was rather what he would make of the Daimos - he already has found new uses for Gnostic sorceries by the end of TTT, what might he achieve by combinining the Daimos and the Gnosis, for example. After all, it is a branch of the anagogic sorceries that the spires researched themselves - and in as much is 'new', but still related. Could it be used to for necromantic purposes, for example? Mebe he could summon Cnaiur's spirit from the outside and put him through some more punishment, hehe. view post


posted 11 Jul 2007, 03:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtInchoroi: Aliens or Demons? by Curethan, Didact

I think they're more concerned with killing than staying alive. Mog is referred to as the breaker of worlds - the plural suggests more than Earwa being on the menu. Aurang talks about how he much hates 'this world' and how he once blotted it out with his finger from his vantage point on his own. Could be that the Inchoroi are a 'weapon' gone out of control - similar to Saberhagen's Berserkers, or even more creepy; a robo-companion species that went nuts - thus the 'race of lovers'. view post


posted 11 Jul 2007, 13:07 in Literature DiscussionNothing against female Fantasy authors but... by Curethan, Didact

Most people who have this trouble don't when they don't know the author is female imo - I remeber a guy telling me the same thing, funnily enuf his favourite author was Ursula Le Guin, but he thought she was a he, lol. One word - preconception. If anyone can illustrate consistent differences between male and female authors in style or ability, I'd be very surprised. view post


posted 11 Jul 2007, 13:07 in Literature Discussiongreat reads in fantasy? by Curethan, Didact

Someone already mentioned this - but I will second it. Read some of Moorcock's Eternal Champion series. Its old school, but I feel that most modern fantasy (especially the gritty stuff) is influenced by it in some way. And hey, the Elric movie will be out any year now - you should read it before Holywood spoils it. It beat the shite out of LotR when I was a teen, I'll tell you that much .... Dumb arse pseudo gay hobbits - gimme a doom laden, demon worshiping albino freak with a soul suckin' sword any day .... those were the days, a nice 200 page novel for just 2 bucks..... ------ 2000 word rambling diatribe deleted to protect forum readers from fatal boredom ----- view post


posted 11 Jul 2007, 13:07 in Philosophy Discussionpsychological affects of ranks in forums by Curethan, Didact

Rankings should progress alphabeticaly. That way one could aspire to become a s-ranc. *rim-shot* view post


OK Creation - but why? posted 11 Jul 2007, 13:07 in Philosophy DiscussionOK Creation - but why? by Curethan, Didact

I was thinking. If Creationism (in any form) is taken to be true - i.e. and some kind of entity created the earth and all us germs, according to some kind of plan, doesn't it follow that the great philosophical question would be: why? - on a level above 'why am I here?', more like, 'why is everything here'?. I mean, does God just make a universe and pop it in the gallery and leave it to the art dealers to try and sell, or was it just to piss me off? view post


posted 11 Jul 2007, 14:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Curethan, Didact

You know, this thread reminds me of something one of the red-neck freaks I work with said to me. "You're only gay if you take it." So, following that pearl of homophobic wisdom along, I reckon Moenghus and Conphas were definately gay, but Cnaiur was just a manly man, teaching those dirty fags a lesson. :P view post


posted 11 Jul 2007, 22:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Curethan, Didact

Jep, twas merely a jape. view post


posted 11 Jul 2007, 22:07 in Literature DiscussionNothing against female Fantasy authors but... by Curethan, Didact

Well, a good case to illustrate my point would be George Elliot, a literary great who only achieved that status by disguising the fact that she was female to escape predjudice. view post


posted 11 Jul 2007, 22:07 in Philosophy Discussionpsychological affects of ranks in forums by Curethan, Didact

Well, tbh I dont care for rank, least of all on a forum - except as a joke. If you would like to fantasize about me in some kind of relative position to yourself, thats fine - but really you should know I'm allergic to hard work. view post


posted 13 Jul 2007, 01:07 in Author Q & AHow about a movie about Prince of Nothing? by Curethan, Didact

Well, I'll hold off voting for a movie to be made of PoN for now. The themeatic subtext and background shading is just both too dense and subtle for a movie to encompass imo. Wait and see how the Stormbringer movie turns out first, if they can do a decent job on that then I would believe PoN was feasible - I really cant see a decent cut of that making it past test screenings though. (oh, and Moorcock is set to be fulling involved in script approvale etc for that) $1000 on the dude who played Morpheus in the Matrix getting Akka's role tho :( . view post


posted 13 Jul 2007, 01:07 in Philosophy Discussionpsychological affects of ranks in forums by Curethan, Didact

Fair enuf - I'll trade you some of my underlings if u like - they make the sranc look like a well mannered bunch of fellows tho - at least the sranc do what they're told. Mind you, I wouldn't mind some day becoming Grand Poohbar of something or other. :P view post


posted 13 Jul 2007, 01:07 in Philosophy DiscussionOK Creation - but why? by Curethan, Didact

Further assuming then that God is an artist, where did God get her inspiration? And what do you think she was trying to say ;) And of course God would have created herself, which makes exactly as much sense as what a phycisist will tell you if you ask what preceded the big bang. And I would imagine that God doesn't wonder about anything. Ominience kinda precludes conciousness - there's no point framing a thought you already knew you were going to think. view post


posted 15 Jul 2007, 04:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWhy did the consult kill xerius? by Curethan, Didact

Hmm, I have read a Q&A with Scott where this question was asked (re: Xerius' mom) and apparently she was a skin spy the whole time (i.e. she was displaced well before TDtcB). view post


posted 15 Jul 2007, 11:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWhy did the consult kill xerius? by Curethan, Didact

By the time that Xerius was killed, Kellhus had taken control of the holy war and I think that the Consult was aware of the link between Mo and Kellhus. I think u need to look at the assasination in the context of the Consult's chang in knowledge and therefore objectives. view post


posted 16 Jul 2007, 13:07 in The Judging EyeMaithanet by Curethan, Didact

It's all about the TTT - the shortest path as illumined by the logos. How else would you go about uniting the three seas? Maithenet has potential to be a real thorn Kelhus' plans imo. Has he mastered the legion within? We all know how most people ruled by their emotions react when they realise that they are being manipulated by Dunyain - is Maithenet any mere than a mere tool? And being cognizant of this fact, wouldn't he in turn try to realize his own goals or break free of the dominion of Kelhus? view post


posted 16 Jul 2007, 14:07 in Philosophy Discussion"Have you ever met someone who is smarter than you?&quo by Curethan, Didact

The wise man learns from fools. That said, I ate all the smarties. Yum, smarties :D And whilst its true that Confuncious said a lot of very wise things, I reckon I could kick his arse. view post


posted 16 Jul 2007, 14:07 in Philosophy DiscussionDrugs by Curethan, Didact

The very worst thing about drugs in my experience is that you have to consort with criminals to get em. On the other hand the legal ones seem to be used with the most reckless abandon - the most dangerous situations I've ever been in involved other people who were mis-using alcohol. view post


posted 16 Jul 2007, 14:07 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

Just finished Reaper's Gale and Renegade's Magic. Both good. Next up, Black Man by R Morgan, then on to HPVII, woohoo - a good month for reading :D view post


posted 16 Jul 2007, 14:07 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by Curethan, Didact

New Tomohawk album - damn that Mike Patton is a freak. view post


posted 16 Jul 2007, 22:07 in Author Q & AHow about a movie about Prince of Nothing? by Curethan, Didact

I tend to agree. I'm hoping that Stormbringer proves the exception that breaks the rule - if it ends up getting made - cuz none of the fanbase would likely bother seeing it if it is watered down to less than an R rating... view post


posted 19 Jul 2007, 06:07 in Philosophy DiscussionDrugs by Curethan, Didact

Which is a part of my point. :wink: view post


posted 20 Jul 2007, 08:07 in Philosophy DiscussionDrugs by Curethan, Didact

Mine too :D view post


posted 24 Jul 2007, 11:07 in Author Q & AMen v. Nonmen by Curethan, Didact

I believe that there aint any non-women. I think that there was a 'womb-plague' that killed all the non-women at the same time that the non-men gained immortality. I could be wrong, there may still be non-women, just infertile. view post


posted 01 Aug 2007, 05:08 in Literature DiscussionHarry Potter (don't hurt me) by Curethan, Didact

I admit to being pleasantly surprised by the Harry Potter series. I agree it deserves its place as a classic. The only slight criticism I would humbly offer is that some of the action sequences are rather murky and unclear. I found it exceedingly pleasing that the plotting was always surprising, although it seemed so straight forward. view post


posted 04 Aug 2007, 00:08 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Curethan, Didact

Kellhus vs Uther Doul. Now that is a match-up that is by no means one-sided. I tend to think that Uther would have the edge, cuz Kellhus has been shown to be occasionally fallible. @ Kellhus vs Satan -> Kellhus would probly whip out the old Douglas Adams' secret weapon and disprove Satan's existence, causing him to disappear in a puff of logos. view post


posted 04 Aug 2007, 17:08 in Author Q & AIs Kelhus a criticism of Jesus/religion? by Curethan, Didact

Well, lets assume that Kellhus does save Earwa and defeats the Consult.... That could be qualified as a good act, and as it was 'vaugely' prophesised probably makes it a miracle - thus proof of divine intervention. So, have those who 'helped' him really been tricked if that was what they believed? Dishonest people can be right, honest ones can be wrong. If people didn't fear being wrong so much, the world would be a nicer place, agreed? PoN is the first part of Kellhus' larger story and focuses on his early experiences with lesser men. At first they are like dogs to him, creatures to be domesticated and trained, but I expect that we'll see more changes to his character in the series as he lives among them - sorcery isn't the only thing the Dunyain have deliberately 'forgotten'. Perhaps we will see Kellhus' redemption as the light at the end of the tunnel. view post


posted 06 Aug 2007, 03:08 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]The Aspect-Emperor by Curethan, Didact

I think that Scott said he would like to write about that in the future - post PoN series rather than as a part of the current arc. view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 03:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Curethan, Didact

Cnaiur I pictured as uglier, leaner, meaner and more hirsute than any of the above decriptive analogues. [quote:3iiunfsy]I agree with Carral and Harrol. Never once did I see Cnaiur as insane, and was, in fact, suprised to see it even mentioned![/quote:3iiunfsy] I would definately describe him as insane - the fact that we can identify with his case and understand his psychoses is down to Scott's skill as a writer rather than him being a sympathetic and rational character. Sane people do not run round getting 'possessed', screaming at random folk to kill them and rooting holes in the ground. view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 03:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Curethan, Didact

The crux of the issue is raised in anor277's post I think. We can apply labels where ever we like but the only thing that does is draws a box around our own perceptions. When I think of the word gay, two meeanings come to mind - a teenage boy's classifaction of something undesirable he hopes does not apply to himself and a homosexual man who has claimed his sexuality as a source of individuallity and pride. view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 03:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAkka by Curethan, Didact

C'mon, Akka is just as bad, if not worse... Can't blame Esmi too much - at least we know that she is being manipulated and therefore has an excuse for vasilating. view post


R Jordan passed away posted 17 Sep 2007, 22:09 in Literature DiscussionR Jordan passed away by Curethan, Didact

RIP 16/9/7, condolences to family, fans and friends. view post


posted 18 Sep 2007, 23:09 in Literature DiscussionR Jordan passed away by Curethan, Didact

Yer, I believe it was largely done anyway. Books 5-9 seemed like largely padding - WoT was the orginal series that got bloated from a trilogy idea by a writer, publisher and fans who enjoyed the world a little too much. He toured out here in Australia back around book 3 and said as much then - then culmanition was already set at book one - back then he believed the series wouldn't go past 5 books lol. view post


posted 21 Sep 2007, 09:09 in Author Q & AR. Scott, can we get a box set??? by Curethan, Didact

All mine are different sizes/editions. Lol, can I get a leatherbound set? That would be sweet, & go well with my rich mahogany furniture. view post


posted 21 Sep 2007, 09:09 in General DiscusssionWho would you cast in a Prince of Nothing movie? by Curethan, Didact

He's not very black tho, is he? view post


posted 21 Sep 2007, 09:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Curethan, Didact

Erm, most crazy people I have met seemed pretty crazy.... Only psychopaths act the way u described, and they are fairly rare - and Conphas was a psychopath. Cnaiur was crazy as a talking pineapple in a spaceship. Or do you really think you could reason with him? I would give the psychiatrist about 50 very hefty bodyguards and a large tranq gun before I forced him to have Cnaiur in for therapy. Perhaps you are confusing the fact that you understand his problems with him being sane, because you are and you can understand. In his position would you go hang with the skin spies? Take one for a lover - even knowing what it is? Murder without cause? Kill your allies? Rape and enslave? Worse - we know that these actions are because he is basicly a good person in an awful world and he feels he has no choice - trapped between his people and the dunyain. How could he not be insane? I think that knowing you are beyond any hope of redemption in your own heart is the basis of the worst kind of insanity - it's why religon has an afterlife init? view post


posted 23 Sep 2007, 05:09 in Author Q & AR. Scott, can we get a box set??? by Curethan, Didact

"My appartment smells of rich mahogany and is filled with leather bound books..." -Ron Burgundy view post


posted 24 Sep 2007, 04:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Curethan, Didact

:) hey thanx Hmm, at Joktha he is described as being aspected and screams about having stalked the Nansur for a thousand years, then just starts screaming "Demon" at them. I think when he rapes Conphas (which he afterwards can't remember) he is thinking of how there must be a demon to match Kellhus as prophet. I'm sure there are several other examples where he raves about being a demon and also where he is described as manifesting the aspect of the god of war - but I can't look them up atm because I've lent out my copies :P Yeh, I do think that he is a basicly good person - possessing empathy and a high level of intelligence. Imo it's what makes him vulnerable to psychosis - he knows that his people's ways are not 'right' - at least for him. Even before Moeghus' influence he was regarded as 'weak' - it's why Moe chose him as the target of his manipulations. I agree that sane people do crazy things (my father is from Holland and was there during the Hunger Winter co-incidentally) - but Cnaiur spent 30 years struggling to regain his sense of self-worth and his place in his society - things critical to a being a balanced individual, all this while his position was undermined by the fact that his peers 'knew' of his degenerate and unworthy nature (in their eyes). At the time of Kelhus' arrival, I would suggest that he was regarded as dangerous, unbalanced and kinda mentally sick even amongst his own very violent and represive culture.... Thru the trilogy I see him becoming more and more sick - I belive Scott has researched many of the key indicators of delusional psychosis very well. I understand what you mean about missing bits of the story as you're swept along with the narative, I caught a lot more of details (especially on this matter) on my second reading. And reading a book twice is not something I do very often. Frequently, he cannot remember his actions, or his motivations. He hears voices upraiding and demeaning him. He can see no path beyond his insane goal of revenge, nor even any real way that he can achieve it. The past mingles with the present. By the time he confronts Moenghus, I fail to see any way he could ever recover any semblance of sanity. I don't think his condition is a temporary coping mechanism or blowout at all. view post


posted 01 Oct 2007, 06:10 in Literature DiscussionNothing against female Fantasy authors but... by Curethan, Didact

Browsing thru my local megastore bookchain, it seems there are more female authors than male nowadays. That kinda blows the initial sexist assumption away. They may not fit your perception of quality, but overall they are the ones getting published and read... view post


posted 02 Oct 2007, 07:10 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Curethan, Didact

Lol, I dunno, now I come to think of it.... Just one of those things I guess - Scott seems very much a member of the 'less is more' school of descriptive embelishment regarding his characters. (I think its only during TTT when someone calls Akka a pict that we discover he is dark skinned.) But I always had the image of Cnaiur as hirsute - some kind of hairy = wild meme in my head, I guess. :D Do barbarians shave? Mind you, with the amount of swazonds he's always cutting - he probly doesn't have room for hair because of all the scar tissue. view post


posted 04 Oct 2007, 07:10 in Literature DiscussionNothing against female Fantasy authors but... by Curethan, Didact

The name is familiar... Can u give me a title, I need something to read :P view post


posted 04 Oct 2007, 07:10 in The Thousandfold ThoughtFinished TTT today - my thoughts... Holy War as training - by Curethan, Didact

Shhh! :P I agree. But is that a criticism of the story? Contrived, surely not! lol view post


posted 25 Dec 2007, 08:12 in The Thousandfold ThoughtInchoroi: Aliens or Demons? by Curethan, Didact

My trilogy is on loan atm, but.... As I remember it, Aurang isnt actually the bird. His true body lies in golgotteroth and the bird is a synthese construct that he 'posseses' in a similar manner to the way he posseses esmi during the confrontation with kellhus. I'm not sure, but I think he was using a skinspy when he ravished her back in Sumna. He is decribed as once being amongst the mightiest of the inchoroi, but I suspect he is now basicly imobile without these sorcerous forms of projection. (something about 'grafts'?) view post


posted 11 Jan 2008, 08:01 in General DiscusssionCnaiur's sexuality-why is the topic so damn popular?? by Curethan, Didact

I think peeps is mainly interested in Snorri himself, partly because he's such a well drawn character and also because the question of sexuality is a common interest among open minded folk. What makes a hero a hero? What makes one gay or straight? Cnaiur's story brings us internaly closer to these issues as we read. Is the homophobic footballer really a repressed gay man? etc etc I think he runs the gamut between engaging and repulsive, which are, for me, the ends of the spectrum of personality one percieves within themself. Sexuality is also a central issue within our lives, both our own and others - it seems natural that in such a conflicted character this would be the area where almost everyone finds something to discuss. Well, thats my thoughts on the original question. oh yeh, I just remembered - I once heard of a tribe (african, i think or maybe south american?) where the menfolk would ritualisticly hump the ground at the outset of spring to ensure the land's fertility. Its the same guys as wear those groovy penis-sheaths. Does that make them (and Cnaiur) gaia? hahahahahaha - choke on my awful pseudo pun view post


posted 14 Jan 2008, 08:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellhus really a prophet? by Curethan, Didact

There's no mention of gods performing divine acts in the three seas.... [quote:aq3iodxy]Ok, so what is your opinion on the strange things that happen to him? i.e. The Haloes, the "Fortuitous Correspondence of Cause" with Saubon at Mengedda, the No-God visions, the heart ripping out, not the least his own conviction that he IS in fact an agent of a true Creator/God, etc.[/quote:aq3iodxy] The halo's are only seen when you believe... the gods are a product of the belief of men... when enough people believe Kellhus is a prophet, well then, he is. Don't matter that he [i:aq3iodxy]was[/i:aq3iodxy] dunyain, or if the the way he has behaved was 'truely evil', he is being co-opted be that which lies outside - the very thing that the dunyain sought to escape for their mission. He's no longer dunyain, he asks 'god' for signs ... and acts upon the answer (i.e. the twig scene, en route to sorting out Mo) imo Kellhus is a prophet. A similar thing happens to Cnaiur. Akka describes madness as allowing the outside to 'leak in' and during the battle against Conphas he is seen as aspected by the god of war. Co-incidence or correspondence? Interesting mention of the 'correspondence of cause' - the other occurs when the dunyain discover the child anasurimbor at ishual in the prologue... view post


posted 15 Jan 2008, 10:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellhus really a prophet? by Curethan, Didact

And what inspired Kellhus to pull the heart trick? As I said above, I think the Earwan gods don't go about smiting folk and performing miracles. I don't recall Inri doing so either - thats kind of the province of sorcerers (blasphemers ;) ) The only obvious influence of the sulfurous godlings that I felt was implied, was through their use of/leaking thru mad folks - i.e. Cnaiur, Kelhus, Inri, Serwe etc... I think a bit of insanity is required to be a prophet don't you? Now if u don't mind, I'll just ask this twig the best way to save the world, cuz I'm the chosen one - I must be the chosen one, cuz all those idiots I fooled into believing I am told me so :P view post


posted 16 Jan 2008, 02:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellhus really a prophet? by Curethan, Didact

I dont think he would heal if he could either. And did Inri really heal blindness? There are 'prophets' running around in our world today who claim they do that too, and their followers believe 'em.... view post


posted 16 Jan 2008, 07:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellhus really a prophet? by Curethan, Didact

Here's why I think he wouldn't. He follows the shortest path and he already recruits followers easily by saying just a few words. Sickly folk would flock to him if he revealed he could heal, and he would be wasting a lot of time and energy healing them or dislillusion them by healing selectively. tbh, I had forgotten about Inri's healing miracle and I based my assertion on being unable to recall any mention of obvious miracles or divine acts in the books. I stand corrected on that point. ;) But the more I think about it, the more I become conviced that the Earwan dieties (such as they be) interact with the world by influenced stressed or cracked psyches - intimated only by Akka's short sorcerous interpretation of madness. I'll offer the correlating instances that occured to me. Twice Kellhus makes big calls that the men of the tusk see as miracles INDEPENDANT of his conditioning and the probability trance. The first time when he gives Saubon his head and then when he nears death on the circumfix. Saubon is definately a cracked jar and several times his unreasonable decisions serve Kelhus and his holy war well. On the Circumfix Kellhus internally (so we know he is being honest) admits that the probabilty trance has failed and he is at a point of crisis. The act of brandishing Serwe's heart does not seem determined by his abilities - rather it seems like a stroke of, dare I say it, divine inspiration similar to his snap decision to whisper 'make sure the shrial knights are punished' to Saubon. Then there are Cnaiur's frequent counterintuitive actions - tho these are characteristic, they often serve Kellhus' 'destiny' very well. Serwe is the first to note Kelhus' glowing hands, the first to understand his 'divine nature', obviously she isn't the full quid but what is blind faith if not a form of madness? The kind that leads one to leap from a cliff on the ephemeral promise of salvation... view post


A fortuitous correspondence of cause. posted 16 Jan 2008, 08:01 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]A fortuitous correspondence of cause. by Curethan, Didact

'How can what has come after affect what comes before?' Kellhus muses as he ponders the Celomomian prophecy at one point. I think the answer to that is when it lies outside what is, what was and what will be. Ie the gods - or the big god, ie the creator It's interesting to me that the dunyain sought isolation (efectively putting themselves outside) to try and achieve truth (or enlightenment or a self moving soul, call it what u will. The Consult, on the other hand want to close of the outside - I think to destroy the gods of men so they can achieve a similar kind of isolation - perhaps in their case so that their own 'gods' will evolve in a new outside whilst the can retain dominance over the world (pure speculation on my part). Kellhus' assertion that the consult and the dunyain would unite is based on the fact that the dunyain must control their surroundings, I think, rather than the fact that their goals are truely the same. The dunyain can attain theirs with much less difficulty by simply isolating themselves and thus reducing the scope of what they must control rather than dominating the world and destroying all free thought (the shortest path remember). Perhaps the dunyain are merely using the Anasurimbor line to ensure that the consult doesn't derail their little project. I mean the first thing a self moving soul would do would be to ensure its own existence, right? So, being all powerful and so forth, it would be a snap to reach back through time - tweak a few souls to say and do the right things, make a thousandfold thought and a prophecy and so forth so that it was succesfully 'born'. I mean, thats the paradoxical nature of omnicsient, omnipotent beings that can reach through time and space aint it - once you decide to make one, and there is the slight possibilty that you can succeed, it kind of balloons into certainty. Hahahaha, this reminds me of my proof of why you can't build a time machine. Because if you could, you would go back in time - give yourself the plans/prototype and save yourself the effort, thus cancelling the time line where you built it out. As soon as this thought occurs to you, you have reduced your chances of succesfully making a time machine to zero. Well, maybe, maybe not, but it makes me laugh. PS I'll be dissapointed if anyone replies to this thread :twisted: view post


posted 16 Jan 2008, 08:01 in General DiscusssionWho would you cast in a Prince of Nothing movie? by Curethan, Didact

Good point there. I think a version would be possible - but to be any good it would be very different to the book. The only example that springs to mind is fight club - good book, good movie, recognizably the same but I got very different rewards from each. Woody Allen as Akka for me, its the role he was born to play hahahaha view post


posted 16 Jan 2008, 13:01 in Author Q & AWhy did the Dunyain learn how to fight? by Curethan, Didact

I agree. The discipline of martial arts is the physical aspect of mastery of oneself. Remember the flashbacks to his martial training; it is more about being able to occupie the spaces of opportunity within the area of your immediate sphere of influence. Also a neat way to provide eugenic selection for physicaly healthy specimens ;) view post


posted 17 Jan 2008, 07:01 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]A fortuitous correspondence of cause. by Curethan, Didact

ooh kay then. *I'm disappointed cuz now I have to expound on a subject I love to flounder around in, but is very slippery* The crux of my little story that you quoted is entirely the problem that you point out with your 'grandfather paradox' (which I enjoyed btw). You can;t do it because if you could it wouldn't happen - no destruction of space time necesary :P The grandfather paradox is the reverse of my example - u travel backwards to negate your present, in mine u travel forwards in order to negate the effort of your past... kinda. Whee fun. However, my initial speculation is actually a tenable one (I think). To provide a more accessable anology, supose that we were devise a computer system that was designed to forment an artificial intelligence. To do so, we create a closed system in which certain programs are able to interact and evolve whilst affecting a predesigned environment that pressures and stimulates them (controlled by us). Herein we are the unseen and inscrutable gods that indirectly control their world and, for us, their perception of time is mutable. For example we can slow or speed things up, save and restore things from times past or just change the group concensus of past events by adjusting global data. (kinda like the Matrix I guess) Now say a segment of this evolving metaprogram sets out to make a trancendent individual that can evolve beyond our initial programming and attain 'free thought' (obviously I'm referencing the dunyain here. We 'gods' decide to let em go for it - hoping to get a true AI out of the deal mebe - even nudging things along with the occaisional 'fortuitous correspondence' here and there. So then at some point, this self moving program escapes the closed system - mebe makes itself a natty robot body or gets into the internet... Now I would suggest the first thing it would do would be to alter its native time stream to ensure its existence in both worlds by, say, removing certain vulnerabilties or altering peoples knowledge of it etc. Essentially, having reached a point 'outside' of its original world it is able to freely affect its past and future therein. PS If you are interested in some really good speculative fiction that explores time and quantum collapse try Greg Egan's 'Quarantine' Its frikkin brilliant - gave me the most wonderful headache. PPS If someone replies to this post again, I may be forced to expound my theory that relates the consult's objectives to Shroedinger's cat-in-a-box thought experiment. And no-one wants that. view post


posted 17 Jan 2008, 08:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellhus really a prophet? by Curethan, Didact

I thought about that when I was making my post. This is assuming he can heal - and I dont think he can, personally.... 2 possible interlinked reasons sping to mind. 1. Kelhus has no sympathy - only the illusion of it. 2. Mebe the probability trance revealed that Xinemus was one of the spurs to Akka's doubting nature and that he would be more likely to succumb to Kelhus completely without him. I have the nagging feeling that Akaa ends up exactly where Kelhus wants him at the end of TTT. Kelhus was even able to play Cnaiur to great effect - unless his (debatable) feelings for Esme blinded him, its highly unlikely that he could have screwed up manipulating Akka to the extent that he ends up an enemy that Kelhus has to allow to walk free.... view post


posted 17 Jan 2008, 11:01 in Off-Topic DiscussionNeuropath out in 2008? by Curethan, Didact

This dude claims a date too. Woot. I have a date :P http://www.fantasybookspot.com/forum/vi ... php?t=5221 view post


posted 17 Jan 2008, 11:01 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

Hey, read that a while ago. Not bad, thought this monkey. Still aint found black man in Oz tho. Now: 'Coincidinces, Chaos and all that maths jazz'. Really interesting :D view post


posted 17 Jan 2008, 11:01 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by Curethan, Didact

Bumblebeez - Prince Umberto and the sister of Ill. Theres some ozzie toons that you wont hear in pubs, mate. view post


posted 17 Jan 2008, 22:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellhus really a prophet? by Curethan, Didact

Heehee, Kellhus is Inri. I like that idea. From the above posts, I think that we also agree that Kellhus is or is becoming a prophet too. ;) view post


posted 18 Jan 2008, 07:01 in General DiscusssionCnaiur's sexuality-why is the topic so damn popular?? by Curethan, Didact

Nice post, Angainawen :D (It was Inrau, btw) view post


posted 18 Jan 2008, 23:01 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]A fortuitous correspondence of cause. by Curethan, Didact

Explain the celomomian prophecy then. view post


posted 19 Jan 2008, 00:01 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]A fortuitous correspondence of cause. by Curethan, Didact

Well in that case the no-god doesn't have much of a chance with something that plans that far ahead under such extremely unlikely circumstances - true enough I guess, since the power in this instance is obviously the author... ;) view post


posted 21 Jan 2008, 08:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellhus really a prophet? by Curethan, Didact

Yup, he's choc full of knowledge and intellect - and Kellhus knows how dangerous those are. And I dont think Kellhus can heal either. view post


posted 22 Jan 2008, 07:01 in The Judging EyeThe Judging Eye by Curethan, Didact

Thankyou thankyou thankyou :D Could the dispossed young king refer to Proyas you think, or little Moe? view post


posted 22 Jan 2008, 08:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Curethan, Didact

If you've read 'The Scar' by Chine Mieville you might agree with my earlier matchup with Uther Doul. I'd get pay-per-view to watch that 'un. view post


posted 22 Jan 2008, 12:01 in Philosophy DiscussionGeorge Bush by Curethan, Didact

Don't live in America, so I won't comment directly - but I found Scott's comments on Bush as anti-intellectual (in the interview linked in the great ordeal section) very interesting as I have noted the same attitudes in Australian politics over the past 10 or more years and I think they have some bearing on your views here, Harrol. view post


posted 22 Jan 2008, 13:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Curethan, Didact

lolcats - thats true evil. No wonder the no-god is so retarded. MOG-pharau, the overkitty Can the logos really be used to defeat such high level unfun? The gnosis will tear like wet toilet paper before the lolcat emotopropis, I fear. Next match-up; Cnaiur vs Steve Foxx view post


posted 23 Jan 2008, 07:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Curethan, Didact

^^Don't follow that link or Mog will eet u for fud.^^ view post


posted 24 Jan 2008, 07:01 in The Judging EyeThe Judging Eye by Curethan, Didact

Forget Kellhus as Dark Lord, Akka will rise as the Dork Lard. view post


posted 27 Jan 2008, 01:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestion about the Tekne and soulled beings by Curethan, Didact

I think it could definatly happen again - most discoveries in our science happen through accidents, then its just a question of working out what happened and reproducing the effect. Interesting that the souled construct just happened to be able to use sorcery tho eh, as a very low percentage of souls can do so. Perhaps it was the forces of the outside intervening again, and this creation has a further role to play in the second apocolypse.... view post


posted 30 Jan 2008, 07:01 in Philosophy Discussionthe bible is the solution by Curethan, Didact

What was the question again? view post


posted 30 Jan 2008, 07:01 in Philosophy DiscussionEvolution vs Creation by Curethan, Didact

Thanks Israfel. Science is an acretion of observation, experimentation, proof and critical thought. Where there are things you can't explain, you admit it and continue to search. I can only suggest that if you need to learn by rote and believe the 'facts' in your chosen field as though they were dogma, you should change profession. view post


posted 31 Jan 2008, 07:01 in Philosophy DiscussionThe Reaction of a New Religion by Curethan, Didact

[quote:2tf68v59]For example if Tom Cruise started glowing and levitating.[/quote:2tf68v59] I saw him do that on Oprah. 8o Join my church, the church of Simontology - we have cool-aid. And if religon ain't your ting you can study Simontifics instead! view post


posted 06 Feb 2008, 07:02 in Philosophy DiscussionThe Reaction of a New Religion by Curethan, Didact

@ Harrol, As the High Priest of Simontology I am the most pious heretic alive. I have constructed a hat that is larger than any worn by my misguided rivals - thus proving the truth of my religon. @ jub, Darwinism? What a lame religon - their afterlife sucks; who is swayed by the promise of a fossil record? view post


posted 11 Feb 2008, 07:02 in General DiscusssionWhat if Kellhus was one of us? by Curethan, Didact

It would depend entirely on his mission really, dont you think? Dominating the holy war and later the three seas was merely a means to an end. Re: general intelligence, we are not really any smarter today than we were in medieval times. What has changed is the amount of knowledge that is stored within our society. What percentage of the population is aware of how a television actually works? Furthermore what percentage of people would be able to build a working prototype? Agreed that people (at least in the old and new world) are largely better educated - you can teach a parrot to talk, doesn't mean its smart. Our dependance on mass media and the pervasion of advertising would make it easier for Kellhus to manipulate and enslave if he had to, and his 'insights' would be just as amazing. Observe how he easily and quickly he dominated the Mandate, for example. Their real world corollary would be our scientists - men of peircing intellect and the highest levels of education but still vulnerable to the basic to the legion within and the darkness that has preceded them. Another point to consider in my arguement that we would be more vulnerable is the preponderance of mental illness and depression - compared to levels 700 years ago we are faced with these conditions on an epidemic level. Fertile ground for one like Kellhus. He might appear as an evangalist, a musician, a scientist, politician or even Paris Hilton... it would depend entirely on his objective, but we would still be as children before him. imo... view post


posted 26 Feb 2008, 07:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWhat drove Kellhus mad? by Curethan, Didact

I've always believed that I am the only sane one and everyone else is variably mad. Works for me, and it seems to work for everyone else too ;) So before you worry about what kind of crazy Kellhus is, think about just who in Earwa is sane and what that means. If Moe's probability trances (the TTT) lead him to expect Kellhus would achieve enlightenment at the circumfixion - how would he be able to distinguish that from madness? I've expounded many times on this forum what Harrol has succintly stated above - nice to know I aint the only one who sees that dichotomy as a central theme, heh. view post


posted 26 Feb 2008, 07:02 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Curethan, Didact

Seems to be based on the assumption of a christian god, where if he exists then he must give a shit about me. What about some older variants, e.g. god as Aten - gives both life and cancer.... Well, you did say any god. view post


posted 26 Feb 2008, 07:02 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeNames and Pronunciation by Curethan, Didact

Agreed. It certainly does add depth to me. Although I have no formal education in historical matters, I have read some classical texts by Thucydides, Arian, Tacitus etc. and I must say that the kind of consistent linguistic techniques used by author like Bakker and Tolkien are far more effective than say Jordan and Erikson, where I often find myself confused as to which character is which. The former naming patterns, although no more effective in building characterisation at least offer hints as to the character's background or origin, thus seperating them in my head. view post


posted 29 Feb 2008, 07:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Curethan, Didact

Heh, I know that, you know that, but I dont think anyone who had anything to do with 300 did. I suffered through a whole 15 minutes of that movie before I remembered my dvd had a stop button. view post


posted 29 Feb 2008, 07:02 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Curethan, Didact

[quote="rogue":3oqdvk04]I can only assume you didn't read the entire thing, otherwise you would understand that it applies to every god. Yes, the site is using Christians as an example, but it also talks about Mormons, Jews, and Muslims. Oh, and Santa. There are also a few times it refers to Ra, Zues, etc.[/quote:3oqdvk04] Yeh, I didn't read the whole thing, struck me as very similar to pro-christian literature for some reason. Same 'preaching to the converted' tone, I guess. PS Hall & Oates have been indepentantly evaluated as evil by a council of sainted lemurs, plus one time I spilt some holy water on a cassette of them and it burst into flame. 8o view post


posted 10 Mar 2008, 10:03 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Curethan, Didact

Is it not within the realms of possibility that science might find a way to heal amputees? I think that such a thing is not only possible but fairly likely if medical science proceeds at its current rate. Ironic perhaps that it is primarily religious groups who would like to halt such research, eh? ;) view post


posted 03 Apr 2008, 11:04 in General DiscusssionWhat is the name of Kellhus's sword? by Curethan, Didact

Enshoiya. :D view post


Re: Poetry posted 06 Jun 2008, 22:06 in Member Written WorksPoetry by Curethan, Didact

Hey, very nice. I enjoyed both of those. Very descriptive and evocative, strong ryhme scheme. The rythym is good too - though there were a couple of lines in the second that jarred a little; if it wasn't first thing in the morning here I could be a little more constructive :P view post


Can I wait to read it? posted 06 Jun 2008, 22:06 in NeuropathCan I wait to read it? by Curethan, Didact

I have been looking forward to new work from Scott, but after reading the first chapter (linked elsewhere in this forum) I'm not so sure. [color=#FF4040:159bdsk1]Mini-spoiler alert.[/color:159bdsk1] I have a phobia regarding exposed brains! Bleurgh. view post


Re: What Comes Before Determines What Comes After... posted 06 Jun 2008, 23:06 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]What Comes Before Determines What Comes After... by Curethan, Didact

A reconciliation (between K & A) seems possible to me. The characters are certainly bound for many further changes beyond the close of TTT. Certainly Akka's writtings prefacing the chapters would indicate that this son't be the case at the outset of the Judging Eye, but I believe these excerpts would have been written by him directly after his self precipitated exile (say in the first 5-10 years of the narrative gap), his history of the Holy War probably being a carthatic exercise to some degree. Parralels occur all the time in history, I think that Bakker's plotting acknowledges this and also uses this technique to manipulate our subconcious expectations and keep things... unpredictable, in a way. The mind seeks patterns which fashion expectations which can then be either satisfied or surprised. I think its what makes speculating about this story arc engaging, there is a rich vein of history, hints and allusions that runs deep through this tale. I would postulate the possiblity that little Mo is ostrasized by his 'siblings' and somehow ends up under the tutelage of Akka... Aknowledged as Kellhus' first child (but really not of Dunyain blood at all...) he could be the disenfranchised prince that Scott mentioned as having a new PoV. view post


Re: Hello posted 11 Jun 2008, 12:06 in WelcomesHello by Curethan, Didact

We love you Harrol. Have a cookie and a glass of milk. view post


Re: Can I wait to read it? posted 11 Jun 2008, 12:06 in NeuropathCan I wait to read it? by Curethan, Didact

:/ it's a phobia, and as it goes it's at least better than a fear of heights. Interestingly, its actually the folded patterns that freak me. Rockmelon (dunno what u foreigners call it :P ) skin also fells me with a sense of dread if I look at the patterns on the rind too closely. Still i will have to read it :( I wonder if i can forward my therapy bills to Scott.... view post


Re: Availability?? posted 11 Jun 2008, 12:06 in NeuropathAvailability?? by Curethan, Didact

Gimme! Prolly have to wait till next year unless I have it shipped here grrr view post


Re: Availability?? posted 13 Jun 2008, 13:06 in NeuropathAvailability?? by Curethan, Didact

Thanks Mr Plum, you've always got the juice. :D view post


Re: The desire not to be slave to the darkness, comes from...? posted 17 Jun 2008, 07:06 in Author Q & AThe desire not to be slave to the darkness, comes from...? by Curethan, Didact

I would suggest that it comes from the logos itself. It being the counter to the darkness, which is born of instinct and presentience, the logos is the perfection of intelligence - an abstract concept of choice born of rational and critical weight. The Dunyain argue that men are slaves to the darkness, but logos is the quintesence of rational thought - the ability to defy instinctual reaction and apply forethought and the consideration of reasoned consequence to make a descision that manipulates circumstance to a desired outcome that best serves one's further goals. (Does that make sense?) Example: storing/rationing food to outlast a possible famine. To completely defy the darkness is the goal, with the desired outcome being infalibilty. The logos is the beacon of intelligence that shines beyond the darkness born of instinct and repition. view post


Re: Halos about Kellhus' hands? posted 17 Jun 2008, 08:06 in Author Q & AHalos about Kellhus' hands? by Curethan, Didact

Argh, DIE SPAMBOT!!!!!! *Raises metaphysical machinegun* view post


Re: Erikson Neophyte posted 17 Jun 2008, 08:06 in Literature DiscussionErikson Neophyte by Curethan, Didact

There are many things about these books that annoy me. Too many characters, that run the gamut from being ridiculously overpowered, amazingly prescient and unbelievably, smugly clever to incredibly similar, boring and dim. Themes almost reach critical mass. Too many divergent plotlines. Nevertheless, I enjoy the books, and every one of the things that pisses me off about them is also one of the things I enjoy. :D A guilty pleasure. view post


Re: Now listening to... posted 24 Jun 2008, 07:06 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by Curethan, Didact

Ha. I just scored Judas Preist's newie. Idk, liked angel of destruction better. Finally I get to see em play in september tho, woooooo stoked! Horns up! view post


Re: Definition of AWESOME posted 24 Jun 2008, 07:06 in Off-Topic DiscussionDefinition of AWESOME by Curethan, Didact

Can't I just get it from mangashare? view post


Re: The terms Wizard vs. Sorceror posted 09 Jul 2008, 07:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe terms Wizard vs. Sorceror by Curethan, Didact

Wouldn't be surprised if it turnes out to be Celomomas.. although as far as I can remember there is no mention of him being able to use magic, aside from popping out a prophecy as he died (which didn't seem to shock Seswatha) - but that would be some kickass magic right there, yeh? (divine in origin one would imagine) I mean it is the only prophecy mentioned in the books, and defies Kelhus' ability to work into his veiw of how things work. On topic, my understanding (not sure where I derive this from though I have read ALOT of classical myths and legends) of the classic use of the term sorcerer is as a magic wielder who derives his power from an outside source channeled through himself, whereas a wizard would be one who utilizes incatations, rituals and the like to manipulate the magics that exist all around. As for Bakker's choice to designate the titles as he has, I could not speculate a reason beyond the desire to differentiate a caste within his vision of magic users. I would suggest that the examples the OP cites are merely arbritrary. view post


Re: Now listening to... posted 09 Jul 2008, 07:07 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by Curethan, Didact

Flight of the Conchords hahahahahahahhahahaha, thats some funny shit - and good music too view post


Re: Almighty Tallest posted 09 Jul 2008, 07:07 in WelcomesAlmighty Tallest by Curethan, Didact

Welcome Almighty. I would recommend attending some writer's events. We have some great ones in Australia, there are workshops specifically devoted to polishing up finished works and finding agents etc. I imagine there would be similar orginizations in Canada. Go for it, and good luck! view post


Re: What drove Kellhus mad? posted 09 Jul 2008, 07:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWhat drove Kellhus mad? by Curethan, Didact

Imo - Earwa is a world where beliefs have a very real weight. If enough people believe something it becomes so - but coloured by the truth of their belief rather than the ideal. view post


Re: the Few posted 09 Jul 2008, 07:07 in General Discusssionthe Few by Curethan, Didact

Could turn the Few into a Few Couples. HA Puns! Wheee view post


Re: The terms Wizard vs. Sorceror posted 10 Jul 2008, 08:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe terms Wizard vs. Sorceror by Curethan, Didact

Ah, thanks for the research. Witch-King... interesting linguistic twist when you consider Tallest's points above. Perhaps a mere reflection of Tolkien nostalgia though. view post


Re: The terms Wizard vs. Sorceror posted 11 Jul 2008, 14:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe terms Wizard vs. Sorceror by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Nerdanel":13xkta77] Also, I wonder what the term "witch" meant to the Nonmen. It clearly wasn't a female spellcaster, unless the Nonmen use "king" to mean "queen" and I very much doubt it. Perhaps witch meant a user of evil or forbidden magic and only later came to be associated with women by humans.[/quote:13xkta77] That makes sense to me. view post


Re: The desire not to be slave to the darkness, comes from...? posted 11 Jul 2008, 14:07 in Author Q & AThe desire not to be slave to the darkness, comes from...? by Curethan, Didact

Heh. That would become evident only when you achieved the logos. But thats what has always bugged me about the dunyain beliefs, it's too zen to be considered logical. A quest where the goal is to be free of your quest. It reminds me of the tao. For the purpose of trying to mesh their goals with the story of Earwa, I propose that the being that attained that state of perfection would rewrite the world and become the new darkness that comes before all men's actions (or mebe disappear in a puff of logic. :oops: ). Perhaps Kelhus is that being and the no-god is his antithesis (or so-conspiritor as some believe). Consider that perhaps Kellhus is free of Earwa's DtCB and instead walks a path from the 'light' of the Duyain where the darkness that moves him is cast only by his own shadow. That he HAD ALREADY attained the logos before leaving the sanctuary. He now rewrites the world in his image, his darkness, 'freeing' it from the old only to enslave it in his shadow. Perhaps Moenghus was in fact the arm of the Dunyain and not a renegade. Eh, prolly not tho. view post


Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 12 Jul 2008, 00:07 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Curethan, Didact

Was he actually Moenghus? Scarred arms and blue eyes would indicate so - but his reputation was as one of the most powerful of the cishurim... I don't recall him ever being mentioned after the start of tDtCB. view post


Re: Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 12 Jul 2008, 23:07 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Curethan, Didact

Well, Cnaiur certainly recognized him... But I always thought it kind of odd that Mo didn't think Kellhus might just stab him. Beyond seeing if Kelhus was nuts I'm not sure what Mo's objective in that meeting was and it's evident even to me that if K was indeed 'mad', there would be some risk involved. I can't decide whether I think Mo is stil alive or not, but I think you're correct that there more went on in that meeting than we know about. view post


Re: Timeline of Earwa posted 14 Jul 2008, 07:07 in General DiscusssionTimeline of Earwa by Curethan, Didact

Aw man, can I just say I think thats really cool and I would like to see it whole. Nice work. view post


Re: Cironian posted 15 Jul 2008, 07:07 in WelcomesCironian by Curethan, Didact

Hah, thats how I ended up lurking on these boards ;) my first online community foray also, for similar reasons. So welcome and I look forward to your observations. view post


Re: Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 16 Jul 2008, 07:07 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Curethan, Didact

Mmm, teleportation is undeniably one of the most potentially powerful abilities someone (especially Kellhus) can have, to say nothing of the level of physical manipulation involved when compared to, say climbing invisible steps into the sky or making things burn. Generally magic systems have rules that aproximate scientific ones. By this I mean that the amount of power/change expended is related to some 'cost'. In the case of Earwen sorcery we know that it is the 'bruising' of the onta, damnation and the deepening of the mark. What this means is unclear, but I think perhaps that Kellhus will realise there is a cost which forces him to use teleportation sparingly. Back on topic, my original question was related to the fact that Mallahet was described as being both a notorious and powerful Cishaurim, second only to the heresiarch, which is the only thing that runs contrary to him being easily identified as Moenghus. Also, what the heck was he doing running messages if it was Mo? [quote:3dhqajh7]Again, Kellhus in the novel clearly describes how the attack on the Scarlet Spires was inspired by a Cishaurim faction that was not in Moënghus' control.[/quote:3dhqajh7] I don't remember this, can you please eloborate? I think that the assasination is what is prompting speculation that Mo could also teleport (which I think would be highly unlikely because I believe it requires knowledge of the Gnosis). Speaking of which I don't think it would mean Mo would've been able to infiltrate the 1000 temples himself because he still wouldn't have enough time to do so - being able to move instantly doesn't add any hours to your day ;) view post


Re: Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 17 Jul 2008, 08:07 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Curethan, Didact

I think we have two poins that both have evidence to back them up re. Moenghus' power levels (over 9000 or not? haha). However I am inclined to believe that Moenghus was weak and that the description of Mallahet as very powerful is actually something Scott revised as the narrative progressed rather than an error in Nansur intelligence. That's what I like about this forum, posters here usually have some good arguments for a number of possibilties and express them clearly and convincingly :D However I love a good baseless conspiricy theory(as you may know) and thus would like to offer a third possibility that ties in with my dim suspiscions about the true nature of the Dunyain. Perhaps Mallahet was not Mo, but another Dunyain and Moenghus was not a renegade but actually a tool of the dunyain's master ploy that involves manipulating Kellhus, the Cellomomian prophecy, the TTT and everything. Thus blue eyes and scarred arms, as he would have also had to travel the Scylvendi homelands and may have been less ignorant of their customs thanks to Mo's intel and more a emotional 'failure' of the test against the legion within could have been sent. I suspect that the top level of the dunyain hierachy is an unrevealed and key player in Earwa and the 2nd apocolypse. Consider that Kellhus never felt the need to present a fake name and I can see no reason why Mo would do so either. Also include Moenghus' capitulation to Kellhus "aw yeh, I spend a lot of time in the probability trance but I never thought he'd stab me...duh". view post


Re: A really silly observation from TDtCB about Cishaurim posted 17 Jul 2008, 09:07 in The Warrior ProphetA really silly observation from TDtCB about Cishaurim by Curethan, Didact

[quote="kalbear":ep3djn0t]It almost should belong in TDtCB, but it deals with info about the Cishaurim we get in TWP so it bears saying here. We know what the Cishaurim are like - they're deliberately blinded, don't have the Mark, have snakes around them to see, etc. Well, I don't think Bakker knew this when he wrote TDtCB. [quote:ep3djn0t]Hounds, Geshrunni would tell him, now ran freely through the halls of the Scarlet Spires, trained to smell the saffron and henna the Cishaurim used to dye their robes[/quote:ep3djn0t] (TDtCB, pg 48) Now, I might've just, say, looked for the blinded dudes with the snakes around their necks, but specially-trained hounds works too. :) Seriously, is this answered anywhere else? I didn't think that the Cishaurim were capable of a glamour that would totally disguise them from anyone, even if their magic is not distinguishable to schoolmen.[/quote:ep3djn0t] erm, they could just not wear their stinking robes too. view post


Re: The No-God posted 17 Jul 2008, 09:07 in The Warrior ProphetThe No-God by Curethan, Didact

The anima is the religious equivilent of the onto, the soul if you will. If the Scylvendi saw that the stillborn children's animae were being directly to the bosom of their god, then perhaps that could be counted as some kind of blessing? I recall that the no-god has some kind of apprecition/appetite for the souls of men (i think Mekeritig says something to Seswatha-on-the-wall about how the no-god ?ate? the soul of one of the great kings and was not impressed.) - perhaps this is what caused the womb-plague amongst men. Not sure how the inchoroi did it to the Non-men, but it was a similar master-stroke in their first rising. view post


Re: Whatever happened to Mallahet? posted 29 Jul 2008, 11:07 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Whatever happened to Mallahet? by Curethan, Didact

:D Still it would be cool if it turned out that Mallahet and Moenghus were not the same guy. And then Cnaiur turns up in book four as his manbitch, having gotten over Mo and Kellhus. view post


Re: Is Kellhus really a prophet? posted 29 Jul 2008, 11:07 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellhus really a prophet? by Curethan, Didact

Even as Kellhus has rewritten the history and cultures of the 3 seas, they have rewritten him. Becoming a prophet was the only way he could rise. When he learned the Gnosis he became steeped in the history of Earwa. His mission complete, he became an empty vessel for the beliefs he reshaped to become home. He is now a figure of destiny, a shaper of the future, but no longer dunyain... I recall that Moeghus' first words to Kellhus; that their blood is the most important thing in the world. Is he speaking of dunyain heritage or the anasurimbor? When the dunyain found the last of the anasurimbor line, their leader noted a great correspondence of cause. The same term Moeghus later applies to Kellhus' prophecy of the Shrial knights. Of course the Dunyain knew of the celomoman prophecy when they first came to Ishual. To accept that the leaders of the dunyain are ignorant of their own history is unwise. Their origin is what determines their task. They may isolate themselves from the world, but they do not isolate themselves from themselves. Although all trace of sorcerous knowledge was obliterated from their new home, this does not mean that all dunyain are ignorant of it, just that the majority of the must be to ensure that Ishual remains conditioned as the Pragma dictates.... This is why Akka will quest to uncover the origins of the Dunyain in AE, their history will illuminate the true nature of the warrior-prophet and the Thousandfold Thought. (Why do we accept that Moenghus was it's progenitor and not, like Kellhus, merely it's pawn?) view post


Re: What happens when your body leaves your soul? posted 29 Jul 2008, 11:07 in Philosophy DiscussionWhat happens when your body leaves your soul? by Curethan, Didact

Did my body leave my soul for a younger spirit? view post


Re: George Bush posted 29 Jul 2008, 11:07 in Philosophy DiscussionGeorge Bush by Curethan, Didact

They were gunna have a revolution on the internet but the trolls ruined it. :shock: view post


Re: Is the idea of a "god" inherent in our minds? posted 29 Jul 2008, 11:07 in Philosophy DiscussionIs the idea of a "god" inherent in our minds? by Curethan, Didact

[quote="jub":7wyl9gin]time doesn't exist. It's just a nice concept that makes things stick.[/quote:7wyl9gin] Couldn't you have told me that earlier.... view post


Re: Is Kellhus really a prophet? posted 01 Aug 2008, 07:08 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellhus really a prophet? by Curethan, Didact

If you say so... But personally I don't believe the Anasurimbor were used as breeding stock. If it were so all, then all dunyain would be anasurimbor and vice versa. No, Kellhus is the direct descendant and a figure of destiny. As I stated above the dunyain were fully cognizant of that when they came to Ishual. A correspdence of cause is clearly different from a useful discovery. Like it or not the anasurimbor line is key and the celomomian prophecy holds import. The quotes that I highlighted are intentionally meaningful; clues that Scott has left for us. Their context and resonance is clear to me, although they are intentionally ambiguous. view post


Re: Now Reading... posted 01 Aug 2008, 07:08 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

^^ now that looks like a freaking awesome read/table book. :D Reading 'Incandesence' by Greg Egan One of the most mind warping scifi writers around today. Read 'Quarrantine' by the same author if you haven't yet. The best quantum physics speculation with truly alien aliens. And he's an Aussie, so with our tiny market he really needs some love overseas. :shock: view post


Re: House of Leaves posted 01 Aug 2008, 07:08 in Literature DiscussionHouse of Leaves by Curethan, Didact

^^ same. I loved Vandermeer's City of Saints and Madmen, this sounds similarly intriuging. view post


Re: Why was Khellus.... posted 08 Aug 2008, 22:08 in Author Q & AWhy was Khellus.... by Curethan, Didact

I would refer you to the scene where Kellhus recalls being trained in hand to hand at Ishual. The dunyain practice a form of martial discipline that is directly related to their ability to choose the correct possibiliies from those available rather than reliance on reflexes etc. It relates to their deterministic beliefs having a physical reality in Earwa. And when Mekeritig breaks out the sorcery, Kellhus runs like a little rabbit. probly the only thing that prevents him from being burned to ashh is the non-man's curiousity/erratic behaviour. view post


Re: Is Kellhus really a prophet? posted 08 Aug 2008, 23:08 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIs Kellhus really a prophet? by Curethan, Didact

Oh, right. Thanks for clearing that up then. view post


Re: Kelhus vs ... posted 10 Aug 2008, 00:08 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Curethan, Didact

Karsa Orlong? I don't think so. It's a question of first being able to defeat Kellhus' ability to inhabit the spaces of opportunity; like trying to gamble against someone with loaded dice. Then you got the gnosis to deal with on top of that. Karsa just hits hard and soaks up punishment (and talks like a tool), Cnaiur and Karsa in Cell block H together would be a good match, maybe Karsa would get the top bunk - but I think Cnaiur would be the daddy... view post


Re: abercrombie posted 12 Aug 2008, 12:08 in Literature Discussionabercrombie by Curethan, Didact

When abercrombie stays within the strictures of the genre I think he brings a fresh and masterful touch to the elements of world building, characterisation and storytelling. Unfortunately, when he attempts to subvert the standard cliched tropes it seemed to me that the options he took, although brave, were ultimately kind of predictable and disappointing. It's difficult for me to quantify exactly why I found the second and third novels progressively more unsatifying - it was kind of like going on a fantastical journey where you were excited to find out what the destination would be, then discovering you had simply returned home. Unexpected, but disappointing. This is the third time I have tried to set down my thoughts on this trilogy and I still don't think I have quite found what I would really like to say about it... So does it get better PP? Not really. If you are enjoying the prose and characterisation, read on. I liked the volume titles best - very good :wink: view post


Re: Esmi posted 29 Aug 2008, 14:08 in The Warrior ProphetEsmi by Curethan, Didact

Really, Esme lives in a sexist world. More than that, it is a world where belief dictates acutal physical reality (sorcery, gods etc). Esme's treatment and behaviour are neccesarily a display of sexism, but this is not the tone of the narrative to me. It is a realistic depiction of a male-centic society but it is to the credit of the story that Esme and Akka recognize and discus the injustice of it. Kellhus' form of religon/manipulation is rooted in exposing 'the truth', which includes promoting equality and revealing lies and deception such as mysoginy and repression. It is partly this, I think, that seduces and keeps Esme with Kellhus and he teaches her so much. A choice between love and the revolution you might say... Perhaps she shows better judgement and a more intelligent choice of reactions in the long run than Cnaiur, for example. view post


Re: mcdonalds! posted 01 Sep 2008, 07:09 in Off-Topic Discussionmcdonalds! by Curethan, Didact

Eh, that's a nice workout there. *throws out old Jane Fonda video* view post


Re: Help me understand posted 01 Sep 2008, 07:09 in Off-Topic DiscussionHelp me understand by Curethan, Didact

Try flipping the paradigm. Imagine someone you care about ending their life due to disinterest/depression/apathy or whatever. Then think why that might be a bad idea. I often find that whilst it is easy to see the flaws in other's thoughts or actions, we refuse the simple logic that aplies these insights to ourselves. I've heard god things about this In Bruges movie, I believe I'll check it out. view post


Re: The twenty years in between posted 09 Sep 2008, 09:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]The twenty years in between by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Vomikron Noxis":3fkid5jz]Brian Herbert will eventually get around to covering what happened in those missing 20 years. ~rl[/quote:3fkid5jz] heehee view post


Re: Help me understand posted 09 Sep 2008, 09:09 in Off-Topic DiscussionHelp me understand by Curethan, Didact

I believe I heard that theory of repeated incarnations re suicide in some chinese myth or legend. Reincarnation trips me out, take it to it's time trancending conclusion and Kellhus' lecture to Akka on the nature of magic starts to make creepy sense. Anyhoo, recalling times when I have experienced suicidal thoughts I found my above thought some help - maybe it can help someone else through a tough time too. Rough topic sure, but discourse on such topics is better than staying silent, surely. :D view post


Re: Now listening to... posted 17 Sep 2008, 07:09 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by Curethan, Didact

Just saw JP live last week. whoa Those guys kick some serious shit, even for old dudes playing a non-rotating set. I must say their live version of Sinner was absofukinlewtly the best live song I have ever seen. KK shredded the most amazing solo I have heard in that. So, yeh, been goin through the back catalogue. view post


Re: Now Reading... posted 17 Sep 2008, 07:09 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

PKD is one of the best. *thumbs up* Quick reads too ;) now reading; Shantaram by Gregory David Roberts view post


Re: Esmi posted 30 Sep 2008, 08:09 in The Warrior ProphetEsmi by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Shell":2ozib5e6]Esmi shows us at the beginning that she knows she is more than her sexuality, Akka knows that she is more than her sexuality, so therefore everything with Kellhus is regression. Name me one person who changed as much as Esmi. Serwe stayed annoying dumb, Conphas astonishingly arrogant, Proyas pious, Cnaiur stayed Cnaiur. I think Esmi is a lightning rod because she is the ONLY main female character. Serwe could have been any other beautiful, nameless face in the crowd, and Conphas mother really doesn't count. She is a lightning rod because Bakker started out with an intelligent woman who knew her own soul, and now everyone defers to her ONLY because she is Kellhus' bedpartner and mother of a godling or something. If she was not attached to Kellhus, she would be just another of many camp whores.[/quote:2ozib5e6] The change in the characters in the course of the story is due to Kellhus and the events they experience. I don't think Esmi's personality changed that much. ***** Bog Spoiler Alert ***** [color=#BFFFFF:2ozib5e6]Emse becomes powerful and a valued and important contributor to the new world order. Everything she ever could have wished for herself at the start of the story, really. And her intelligence made her bitter because she knew her position to be unjust because she could tell that she was smarter than all the powerful men she encountered in her trade. She knows what she owes Kelhus and I believe she feels she must pay because of her experience in such transactions of the soul. She knows what Kellhus is by the end but still chooses him. To me this is consistent with her strong personality throughout the books, demostrating less change in character than you suggest. She has no reason to be antagonistic towards Kelhus because SHE is the one who betrayed Akka. She always tries to let her head rule her heart. I mean seriously, Akka is a nice enough guy (and a bit of a whiny self pitier) but there are a lot of .... hmmm ... 'mistakes' Esme made that lie between them. (Sarcellus, Kellhus etc) I think we'll find that by the next book people will defer to Esme because they either respect or fear her, quite independantly of Kelhus. He is the catalyst for change and in this case, emancipation but these things eventually must sustain themselves. And on the question of who changed more..... ;) Serwe was an abused and dim animal, no more than chatel but she changed enough to become someone who felt valued and loved (still irritating to me tho, granted) before dying as a figure of veneration. Conphas was a noble hero in a legend of his own making before slowly becoming a weak, humbled, embarassed emperor of a doomed nation betrayed by his own once loyal troops. (although a remaining self absorbed psychopath all the way) Proyas, in contrast to Conphas gets all the heroic rewards for his piousness he could have hoped for when first introduced, but finds them hollow and becomes more and more withdrawn and disenchanted. I think by the end he's well on the way to losing his faith in religon and Kelhus. Cnaiur went from being a shunned but powerful chieftain with some anger management issues into full blown insanity. I have no idea how you can suggest that he didn't change as a person. I really can't imagine the Cnaiur we met at the start of TDTCB would behave the same way upon encountering a skin spy's true face...[/color:2ozib5e6] view post


Re: The metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts posted 10 Nov 2008, 08:11 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts by Curethan, Didact

Ooh, lubberly logic analysis. An excellent essay. I agree with almost everything here and enjoyed the extensions to my half formed/percieved thoughts on the subjects covered. If I might propose some answers for Mith; 1) Programming through the Tekne, same as Sranc, skinspies etc. 2) Hitting a mountain with a nuke might be a good analogy for the methodology Thorsten describes. 3) you might be right about the chorae providing protection, but I don't think you could touch the no-god with sorcery anyway, not the way that Thorsten describes his .... hmm ... individual onta? I think it might be pertinent to mention that I recall the no-god being described as summoned. Whilst agreeing that he is a product of both Tekne and sorcery, the only mention of summoning comes from the daimos - which I also note was skipped in Thorsten's summary of sorceries. As the scarlet spires discovered the daimos post 1st apocolypse, I would like to inject some baseless speculation that perhaps it is a form of sorcery originally native to the inchoroi and perhaps connected to their outside, mwahaha. (recall the demon's reference to Earwa as the 'needle world', obviously a highly alien plane of existence) view post


Re: the decapitating adventures of the merry chainswhore posted 10 Nov 2008, 08:11 in Member Written Worksthe decapitating adventures of the merry chainswhore by Curethan, Didact

Don't worry Mats, I like my metal with extra cheese too. Manowar make me smile. Everyone has a at least one cheesy metal band close to they heartses. But why would one roll around behind urinals? I remember going to a Faith no More concert where the piss was inches deep in the toilets. Ah, good times. view post


Re: The metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts posted 11 Nov 2008, 08:11 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts by Curethan, Didact

The demons are credited with some PoV narrative indicating they are sentient, perhaps ensoulled, i dont know. Thats a much larger result than long distance communication, compulsion, illusion or even destruction and wards. In relation to Thorsten's systematic analysis of the four major subsets, where did the scarlet spires, mere weilders of the anagosis, get it? The chanv addict was the only one who could perform daimos, if I recall correctly. Where the hell does chanv come from? The daimos was a match for Akka w gnostic, thats pretty hardcore. Thorsten, can you tell me the greek root for daimos? 89) I think its relates to god/s? Or Ares' son? Sigh, my search engine powers are weak. I dont even wanna think what would Kellhus would do with it. view post


Re: The metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts posted 11 Nov 2008, 12:11 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe metaphysics of Eärwa - some thoughts by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Thorsten":lj8jh4mw]anor277: Curethan: [quote:lj8jh4mw]Thorsten, can you tell me the greek root for daimos?[/quote:lj8jh4mw] That would be another word difficult to translate δαίμων - god, goddess, the power controlling the destiny of individual, lot, fortune, soul of men of the golden age, departed souls, spiritual or semi-divine being, evil spirit, demon, the Good Genius Anyway, it denotes some kind of spiritual being. You can have a go using the [url=http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/resolveform:lj8jh4mw]Perseus search engine[/url:lj8jh4mw] - it seems to include all of classical Greek. [quote:lj8jh4mw]The demons are credited with some PoV narrative indicating they are sentient, perhaps ensoulled, i dont know. Thats a much larger result than long distance communication, compulsion, illusion or even destruction in relation to Thorsten's systematic analysis of the four major subsets.[/quote:lj8jh4mw] Yes and no. The sorcerer isn't responsible for the sentience. All he does is use what is already there, so summoning and using a demon is conceptually rather a cant of transposition (which in this case is easier than the one used by Kellhus because one end refers to the Outside which is more changeable) and a cant of compulsion. You wouldn't credit sorcery for the fact that Esmenet has a soul while under compulsion either.[/quote:lj8jh4mw] I feel that bringing an active part of the outside to manifestation (against its will, mind) is indeed a huge exertion of meaning. I realize the sorcerer is probably not the source of the actions, and therefore not the source of the summoned being's power. This isn't really my point. The whole metaphysics of summoning such a being - bringing it almost completely to the real world really does seem akin to your description of what the no-god is... The murky origins of chanv and Elazareus (a user) being the summoner indicate to me that the may be a link between the daimos and the manifestation of the consult's god. The description of Aurax (i think?) near the end of TTT is pretty damn classic demon and when Aurang rapes Esme too. Initially the Inchoroi were described as very alien - now they appear as humanoid demonic creatures... hmm getting of topic now. Thanks for looking up the definition and the link btw :) view post


Re: The Consult behind the Chuch of England's new ad campaign posted 17 Dec 2008, 12:12 in General DiscusssionThe Consult behind the Chuch of England's new ad campaign by Curethan, Didact

of course.... view post


Re: Iyokus as enemy in new book? posted 19 Dec 2008, 13:12 in The Thousandfold ThoughtIyokus as enemy in new book? by Curethan, Didact

Consult might give him tekne eyes. Chanv probably comes from them (i think its nonman blood or summink), and the daimos is an obvious route to a special kind of damnation. He'd make an ideal ally. view post


Re: The Judging Eye posted 13 Jan 2009, 08:01 in The Judging EyeThe Judging Eye by Curethan, Didact

I came here to cry. My copy of the judging eye came in today. Unfortunately I can't pick it up till friday. (That's 2 more more days!) Boohoo. Do tears blot intuhweb pages? view post


Re: Simas Question posted 13 Jan 2009, 08:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSimas Question by Curethan, Didact

I'm fairly sure my boss is a skin spy... view post


Re: The Judging Eye posted 15 Jan 2009, 09:01 in The Judging EyeThe Judging Eye by Curethan, Didact

Devouring book, must ... not ... read ... too ... fast .... I think the time is near when spoiler warnings must be placed on this sub-forum. ! @ skaf, dude if ur in oz u can get a copy sooner. Pulp Fiction in brisbane have shelf stock, they have no web presense but u can find their phone number easy peasy. I'm sure the dudes there would be happy to post it. view post


Re: Simas Question posted 15 Jan 2009, 09:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSimas Question by Curethan, Didact

Harrol, Ima thinkin I will push him down some steps and see if any bones break.... but I'll be sure to let u know if he kills me. view post


Re: The Judging Eye posted 18 Jan 2009, 04:01 in The Judging EyeThe Judging Eye by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Cnaiür":210k1gl8]Perhaps, its time to rename this forum section to "[i:210k1gl8]The Judging Eye[/i:210k1gl8]" spoiler forum. :|[/quote:210k1gl8] Yer, I'm holding off starting any new threads until then, but being through to the final chapter I'm looking forward to some discourse on some of the (quite frankly) suprising, erm ... surprises. view post


Re: Now Reading... posted 18 Jan 2009, 04:01 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

The Judging Eye, I think I may well read it again straight after. view post


*Spoilers* Traveller's identity posted 20 Jan 2009, 07:01 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Traveller's identity by Curethan, Didact

Ok, in the prologue a person identified only as the traveller finds Kosoter & co. He says 'we find everyone' when asked how he found them. This indicates to me that he is probably an imperial agent (I said probably). Anyone notice any other hints as to his identity or mission? view post


*Spoilers* It's official! posted 20 Jan 2009, 07:01 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* It's official! by Curethan, Didact

In the 'what has come before' (which is at the back of the book...?) it is stated clearly via the narative that Kellhus is indeed mad. Official? or official red herring? Vote now! view post


*Spoilers* The gods must be crazy posted 20 Jan 2009, 07:01 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* The gods must be crazy by Curethan, Didact

We know Yatwer and the white-luck are now Kellhus' greatest threat. Her agents seem well placed to wreak some major havoc. I am fairly sure Kelmomas is in her thrall, that nasty old Psatma seems set to eclipse the Ikurie hag as nastiest woman in the series and Sorweel looks to be the pivot of the ordeal's failure. I never imagined the 100 gods would take such a direct role, but it is a fascinating analogy to present religon as seeking to preserve its power at the expense of all else. view post


*Spoilers* Favourite new character. posted 20 Jan 2009, 07:01 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Favourite new character. by Curethan, Didact

Vote and post why. Note that I've only listed those with significant screentime. I liked Serwa and Kayutas but we really didn't see much of them yet. I was disappointed not to see more of Moenghus too - that guy must be nearly as nuts as his dad living in that family. view post


Re: Now Reading... posted 20 Jan 2009, 07:01 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Curethan, Didact

[quote="carlsefni":m8dww55h][quote="Cnaiür":m8dww55h]I'm in the middle of [i:m8dww55h]The Lies of Locke Lamara[/i:m8dww55h] (a great read, much better than I expected)[/quote:m8dww55h] I would echo that sentiment -- I really enjoyed that read. I have been told that the follow up (whose title I forget) is pretty much just more of the same, and so not quite as much shiny new exciting fun -- but I'll probably try to check it out some day.[/quote:m8dww55h] Yes, and I think that Red Sails would have benifited from something different. It loses a fraction of the fun of the first in favour of more pathos. However his writing has improved in the 2nd book which is no mean feat. I really tried to string out reading 'the judging eye' but its like a zombie's need for brains when I get my hands on prose that I enjoy... view post


Re: *Spoilers* The gods must be crazy posted 20 Jan 2009, 09:01 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* The gods must be crazy by Curethan, Didact

I agree. The Judging eye itself blew me away. No way I was expecting this kind of thaumaturgical magic after PoN took such pains to avoid it. But in retrospect it seems logical. As you say regarding the damnation, it seems to reveal things that have a critical level of belief. It doesn't seem to indicate any extremes with neutral/mundane objects (i.e. trees, donkeys etc). I would postulate a combination of duration and mass of belief (if such a metaphor is possible). *off topic* I'm so glad I grew a little chin-stroker beard before I read this book. :P view post


Re: *Spoilers* Favourite new character. posted 20 Jan 2009, 10:01 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Favourite new character. by Curethan, Didact

I will be surprised if Incariol doesn't own this poll. He got my vote. I think he could win many 'vs' threads too. view post


Re: *Spoilers* Traveller's identity posted 20 Jan 2009, 10:01 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Traveller's identity by Curethan, Didact

Good points :) Just the kind of thing I was looking for - that seems to add up nicely. But you just made me think. :? The consult have been looking for ishual for 20 years too. And just happening to find a mysterious nonman prince mucking about with scalpers... did that not send Akka's wizard sense tingling? Icariol isn't gunna find much memorable tradgedy there, is he? And when Mimara first found Akka, he [i:17om8v8o]knew[/i:17om8v8o] Kellhus 'sent' her... :shock: view post


Re: *Spoilers* The gods must be crazy posted 20 Jan 2009, 13:01 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* The gods must be crazy by Curethan, Didact

By duration i was thinking the length of time a thing was believed would also deepen the conviction, so it is that things change even more slowly. Sorcery may be an absolute ticket to damnation though, dependant on the true god. In this case that there is a clear means to the end of kellhus BSing about redemption. Regarding my point on what the jugdging eye reveals, we don't really know what causes things to be[b:3qjhv1p1] good or evil[/b:3qjhv1p1]. It is a judgement. So whose vision is Mimara cursed with? We know that men are mere animals when the logos can be used to rule them. Their actions are dictated by the darkness more than moral choices. If someone was forced to use magic by an external agent they would still be damned, I think, Akka is presented as a good person damned by his descision to use magic, so where is the moral judgement? By this measure, it stands that morality is an absolute rather than relative, therefore non moral agents could be good or evil. For example, ravens might be held to be agents of evil in many cultures and actually be so in reality. I think the darkness the Nonmen worshipped was the darkness that comes before. Though they were learned, they recognized and worshipped their ignorance as the thing that moved them. [quote:3qjhv1p1]"Tisra hir' gingall vo'is?" "Where is your judgement now?"[/quote:3qjhv1p1] Incariol asks this of the statue of Cu'jara Cinmoi. Which just happens to be the focus of the temple, and the statue to whom the nonman prayed... also in a pose remiscent of the circumfix... Ugh this isn't getting me anywhere but more confused. :| view post


Re: The Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) posted 25 Jan 2009, 00:01 in The Judging EyeThe Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) by Curethan, Didact

Scott has stated that in Earwa belief gives objects and ideas real moral weight in Earwa. The relavation in JE is that some few individuals seem to be behind basing judgement, ie determining the moral spectrum, evidenced by Incariol's words in the nonman temple and the confrontation with the non-man king. Mimara's judging eye seems to imply that Kellhus' judgements have no weight to date. Wether damnation really equals evil or women are inferior is up to the individual, the judging eye shows the judgement that has been cast already (by the human 100 gods I assume, although this is ambiguous). view post


Re: *Spoilers* Favourite new character. posted 25 Jan 2009, 00:01 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Favourite new character. by Curethan, Didact

Yeh, Kelmomas certainly is intriguing. I veered between seeing him as an evil abomination and a tragicly flawed genius who is really doomed by not having any guideance wih his overwhelming gifts. The mysterious second voice and his actions to manipulate the Yatwer against the new empire astounded and confused me. Who is using this prodigous child? (This prolly deserves its own thread) view post


Re: *Spoilers* Traveller's identity posted 25 Jan 2009, 00:01 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Traveller's identity by Curethan, Didact

I thought maybe the consult, but Plum's logic has me convinced - Kellhus looks fucked in the face of Yatwer's machinations and the white-luck, maybe Akka is his ace in the hole. view post


Re: Maithanet posted 25 Jan 2009, 00:01 in The Judging EyeMaithanet by Curethan, Didact

Cnaiur was quickly bested. Madness gave him some ability to avoid mental control though. Looks like Mini-moenghus has inherited that. view post


Re: The Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) posted 26 Jan 2009, 00:01 in The Judging EyeThe Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) by Curethan, Didact

I really couldn't guess. There's a lot we don't know eh. I'm interested to know what the judging eye saw when Mimara looked at Kellhus. I mean we know about the halos. Mimara has had ample oppurtunity - I'm amazed Akka didn't ask. view post


Re: The Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) posted 29 Jan 2009, 07:01 in The Judging EyeThe Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) by Curethan, Didact

So what, besides sorcery, doth damneth? view post


Re: Chorae (SPOILERS!!!!) posted 29 Jan 2009, 07:01 in The Judging EyeChorae (SPOILERS!!!!) by Curethan, Didact

Well, you know - the damned couldn't aprehend it as holy cuz they're, well, damned eh? So I guess that could be the contradiction involved in aporetic sorcery. The creation of something holy with sorcery? God's tears.... heh, cool. But I don't think Mimara warded so much as placated. "Who guards the gates?" That whole last scene was pretty awesome, I think I shall reread it. view post


Re: The Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) posted 30 Jan 2009, 07:01 in The Judging EyeThe Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Harrol":2g9hc0vy]People that use words that end in th.[/quote:2g9hc0vy] Damned lisp. view post


Re: The Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) posted 30 Jan 2009, 11:01 in The Judging EyeThe Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) by Curethan, Didact

Religious belief almost always flies in the face of reason imo. And you're supposed to sing the songs whilst stabbing... I wonder if Kosoter (being a holy veteran) looks all righteous to the Judging Eye. view post


Kellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- posted 30 Jan 2009, 12:01 in The Judging EyeKellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- by Curethan, Didact

So Kellhus has probably been "outside" and wears a couple of demon's heads on his utility belt (next to the shark repellent). Does this suggest some kind of messing with the Daimos to anyone else? If he has been outside, its no wonder that the gods want to kill him. He probly stole Odin's wife too, hehe. Sorweel got "blessed" by Yatwer, now hears a voice and can now seemingly BS Kellhus. Kelmomas hears a voice and acts independantly to worsen the situation with the cults. Cnaiur used to hear a voice that drove him to murder, I theorize that it was the war god/demon in his case. It strikes me that Akka's explanation of madness/the infleunce of the outside to Cnaiur was accurate and that to be god-touched is to succumb to madness. I think the whiteluck will be one crazy mofo, make Cnaiur look like Nigel Plankpants. How much do you think Kellhus knows about what he's up against? I got the feeling while reading JE that things were really stacking up against him but his lack of POV doesn't give much idea of what he's really been up too. 20 years is a long time for someone like Kellhus. view post


Re: Kellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- posted 30 Jan 2009, 23:01 in The Judging EyeKellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Chirios":3fs7lvxl]We are of course; ignoring the possibility that Psatma Nannaferi is completely insane. Just wanted to throw that out there.[/quote:3fs7lvxl] One of my points being that you being insane is a requirement/result of being moved by the gods as opposed to the DtcB. That'd be why Kellhus doesn't read Sorweel properly after he is 'blessed'. view post


Re: Kellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- posted 31 Jan 2009, 06:01 in The Judging EyeKellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- by Curethan, Didact

[quote="anor277":26d7dc73]It was my impression that the demon heads Kellhus sports on his belt were those of skin spies. Certainly the skin spies are absolutely terrifying (Kellhus no doubt animates them) but they are not demonic.[/quote:26d7dc73] No, they are specificaly referred to as 'Ciphrang heads'. view post


JE interview posted 03 Feb 2009, 08:02 in The Judging EyeJE interview by Curethan, Didact

http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.com/2009 ... rview.html Clicky click. Thanks Pat. view post


Re: The Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) posted 03 Feb 2009, 08:02 in The Judging EyeThe Curse of the Judging Eye (SPOILERS!!!!) by Curethan, Didact

[quote:35ldiu9i][b:35ldiu9i]- Damnation is a recurring topic among the sorcerers. Will we see any of the mechanisms behind the judgments related to this damnation as the series progresses?[/b:35ldiu9i] Likely not. The occult and the theological are hopelessly muddled in the real world, so in the interests of realism I intend to keep things the same in Earwa. Besides, with the possible exception death-row inmates, does anyone ever really know why they’re being burned?[/quote:35ldiu9i] -SB interview. Assumptions & guesses look like all we gunna get. view post


Re: Kellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- posted 06 Feb 2009, 22:02 in The Judging EyeKellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- by Curethan, Didact

The example I specifically recalled was from Sorweels perspective. But it wasn't him describing it, it was a narrative assertion. Now, for myself, I don't go assuming the author is lying to me when ready fiction - it kind of defeats the whole point, yeh? Save that kind of critical thinking for reading non-fiction, where lies and misinterpretation are more common. If Scott calls them ciphrang heads, thats what they are. Not carved turnips because you don't believe in demons. Sheesh. Oh yeh, and when kKellhus returns and Esme sees him they are called demon heads too. Why you think its unlikely defeats me. Kellhus can teleport, he is in possesion of the daimos, his principal opposition to his goal of defeating the consult now comes from the outside, he needs to know exactly what he faces there and he could easily defeat a ciphrang if Akka was able to do so. view post


Re: Consensus so far? posted 06 Feb 2009, 22:02 in The Judging EyeConsensus so far? by Curethan, Didact

Ouch, spoilerish review there. I count three of the surprises I enjoyed right there in one little paragraph. view post


Re: Kellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- posted 07 Feb 2009, 09:02 in The Judging EyeKellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- by Curethan, Didact

Eh sorry, no rancour - I just bemused :) Didn't mean to sound so strident there. view post


Re: Kellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- posted 25 Feb 2009, 10:02 in The Judging EyeKellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- by Curethan, Didact

Hmm, that's true about Sorweel - but - I felt the Psatma's mysterious Whiteluck seemed the likely embodiment of this character. I think that he wil be like Kelhus in that he will be a plot device more than a main character. Sorweel was, to me, another extension of the forces of Yatwer moving in a large "world-wide" movement against Kellhus. As in chess, Sorweel is a knight - the whiteluck warrior is her queen - psatma a bishop - Kelmomas a rook. Kind of an array of tools all working at her grand design. You can't challenge Kellhus on only one front and hope to win. I got the impression that the whiteluck was the motive force of the gods and the Whiteluck Warrior was merely the prime manifestation. view post


Re: *Spoilers* Traveller's identity posted 02 Mar 2009, 07:03 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Traveller's identity by Curethan, Didact

[quote="RazorSmile":e5wungq4] Say, did anyone else notice the quick mention of Iyokus? I take that to mean the Scarlet Spires still exist in some form. [/quote:e5wungq4] No, and I was looking for that kind of thing. Could you perhaps direct me to roughly where that was? view post


Re: Kellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- posted 02 Mar 2009, 07:03 in The Judging EyeKellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Athjeari":3rgy416w]I don't think that Curethan has crossed a line; he has simply made his point. I happen to agree with him. Kellhus is certainly capable of crossing into the Outside, and the book mentions that the heads tied to his belt are in fact demons, aka Ciphrang. Sorweel calls Kellhus a Ciphrang....a demon....or vice versa, a demon.....Ciphrang. Why is it so unbelievable to some that Kellhus has two demon heads? Where would his body go when he teleports if not the outside? We know from TTT that Ciphrang reside within the Outside. As for the White Luck.... maybe I read this part wrong but isn't Psatma the White-Luck? During the "baptism" doesn't she regenerate and become young and beautiful once again? I thought her old age and wrinkles were passed on to the man she was riding and Psatma took the "White-Luck" into her body? Was I drunk or something when reading this, if this is totally foreign to you all let me know and I'll reread the part.[/quote:3rgy416w] Thanks, I didn't mean to offend. Re:: Pstama, that bit was very confusing. Certainly there was some transference or manifestation of power there. Anybody thinks they have a clear handle on what exactly occured there I'd like to hear it. view post


Re: Is Kellus insane or not posted 02 Mar 2009, 08:03 in The Judging EyeIs Kellus insane or not by Curethan, Didact

I think that he may be crazy as all 'mere men' are crazy - only in comparison to Dunyain. By this I mean that he now allows things other than logic, nessecity and expedience to inform his descisions, at least from Moenghus' perspective. I am quite sure that I am the sanest guy I know, everyone else thinks I'm nuts. view post


Re: *Spoilers* The gods must be crazy posted 02 Mar 2009, 08:03 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* The gods must be crazy by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Callan S.":2t75aj1j]Psatma hasn't done anything amazingly horrible as far as I recall. Esmi does/orders far worse. [/quote:2t75aj1j] Yeh, just my personal opinion on her character - totally unsympathetic to me, whereas Esme one can at least understand her actions. Religious zealotry has always been especially repugnant to me. :cry: view post


Re: Dunyain machinations posted 03 Mar 2009, 11:03 in The Judging EyeDunyain machinations by Curethan, Didact

Interesting ideas. I have speculated similarly on this in the TTT sub-forum quite some time ago. The idea that the dunyain are ignorant of the world beyond ishual is tied what we know of them, which comes almost exclusively from what Kellhus reminisces. They took pains to remove all sorcerous references from the retreat when they first arrived, to prepare conditioned ground for those that would be trained. Personally, I think that only the majority of dunyain are subjected to such ignorance. Obviously there are levels of initiations and secret knowledge - levels to which Kellhus and even Moenghus were not privy. The pragmas, and any ultimate "leader" beyond them would be the soul that chooses the dunyain's path. From this it seems resonable to assume (for the purposes of speculation) the possibilty that the dunyain may idea have some machinations relating to the 2nd apocolypse, even if it only included their own survival. Consider the type of sure, multifaceted and precise actions that Kellhus and Moenghus make to master circumstance. And recall the dunyain leaders' words upon discovering the last Anasurimbor when they reached Ishual in the PoN prologue. "A fortuitous correspondence of cause." Now. Why was Moenghus, father of the heir to the Anasurimbor, exiled into the three seas? Because sranc had come to close to Ishual. Do you think the pragma/s knew something Moenghus and Kellhus don't? Anyway, I was intrigued greatly by Akka's new dreams of Seswatha. It seems that the only people who knew Ishual's location were Seswatha and the king... It seems strange to me that the dreams don't seem to include Seswatha's death. *Draws a line from Seswatha to Ishual and to the dunyain.* Heh, just my 2cents. PS I'm sure Baker talked about more dunyain, including a female dunyain too? I can't recall clearly. view post


Re: *Spoilers* Traveller's identity posted 03 Mar 2009, 11:03 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Traveller's identity by Curethan, Didact

[quote="RazorSmile":1yaa06hk][quote="Curethan":1yaa06hk][quote="RazorSmile":1yaa06hk] Say, did anyone else notice the quick mention of Iyokus? I take that to mean the Scarlet Spires still exist in some form. [/quote:1yaa06hk] No, and I was looking for that kind of thing. Could you perhaps direct me to roughly where that was?[/quote:1yaa06hk] I don't have my copy on me (at work, you see) but it was one of the Sorweel chapters. Iyokus isn't mentioned by name but a blind pale translucent skinned sorcerer is mentioned.[/quote:1yaa06hk] Ah thanks! :D That narrows it down. view post


Re: Is Kellus insane or not posted 03 Mar 2009, 11:03 in The Judging EyeIs Kellus insane or not by Curethan, Didact

I guess a dunyain of Moenghus' level has as their motivation the need to preserve the self and dominate circumstance. This could well be the reason that sorcery is banned from Ishual. Damnation is something that even a sorcery-using dunyain cannot avoid. (Unless you join the consult) view post


Re: Kellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- posted 04 Mar 2009, 11:03 in The Judging EyeKellhus vs Whiteluck -<SPOILERS>- by Curethan, Didact

Okay, I kinda got that, but she also got renewed. Youth and vigour etc. I get that yatwer is "the giver" but the signifigance of selfless or self detrimental giving seemed to be the focus of her aspect. I guess literally I understood the scene but the meaning escaped me. view post


Re: Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 13 Mar 2009, 07:03 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Curethan, Didact

Erm, the way compulsions work wouldn't result in a voice like that imo. I think 'the voice' is simply a more forceful version of the secondary mental voice we all share - the one that frames our thoughts, asking questions that your own 'thinking voice' answers. Scizophrenics often 'hear' disassociated voice/s urging them to do stuff. I would suggest Kelmomas' voice is the product of his powerful imagination gone a bit sick, and thus easily infleunced by outside forces. *edit: Perhaps the gods broke his elder brother's mind trying to achieve the same result? view post


Re: Complaint to author posted 13 Mar 2009, 09:03 in General DiscusssionComplaint to author by Curethan, Didact

Worked fine for me. L 2 master circumstance. view post


Re: Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 14 Mar 2009, 05:03 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Curethan, Didact

Certainly can't discount that. I was under the impression that it was compulsion that was used on Esme tho. view post


Re: The eye in the Pick's heart *spoilers* posted 30 Mar 2009, 08:03 in The Judging EyeThe eye in the Pick's heart *spoilers* by Curethan, Didact

Eye <3 hell... *snort* view post


Re: Consensus so far? posted 30 Mar 2009, 08:03 in The Judging EyeConsensus so far? by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Truth Shines":fdl4vauh] p.p.s.: I'm sure I'm not the only one who recognized the parallel between Cil-Aujas and Moria. I remember when I first read the phrase "Black Halls of Cil-Aujas" I laughed out loud and said: "Akka I hope you don't run into a Balrog down there!" You have to give Mr. Bakker props: there's no hemming and hawing with this guy, he is going right up against Saint Tolkien himself. :)[/quote:fdl4vauh] The Cil-Aujas slog was prolly 10x better than the Mines of Moria imo. This was really the meat of the narrative and made it entirely worthwhile. The rest, as you say, was setting up the frame of a new thematic structure and was tantalizing more than satisfying. And certainly I agree that Cnaiur leaves a mighty big space in the PoVs. But the prose was superior to TDtCB - many times I had to stop and roll it on my palate, as it were. view post


Re: Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 30 Mar 2009, 08:03 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Curethan, Didact

ha Anasurimbor Charles? view post


Re: Swayal Sisterhood posted 04 Apr 2009, 08:04 in The Judging EyeSwayal Sisterhood by Curethan, Didact

I think the gnosis stays with the mandate because it is imperitive that it stays 'safe'. Thanks to Seswatha they wont give it up even under compulsion. (refer to PoN) view post


Re: Swayal Sisterhood posted 06 Apr 2009, 07:04 in The Judging EyeSwayal Sisterhood by Curethan, Didact

Yes, you're right, anor277. There's no reason to not share the gnosis amongst the schools. A skin spy had already infiltrated the mandate as a sorcerer - revealed by Maithenet at the end of TTT. view post


Re: Dates for the White-Luck Warrior? posted 06 Apr 2009, 07:04 in The Judging EyeDates for the White-Luck Warrior? by Curethan, Didact

I have ordered a time machine from the internetz. I will let you know releaase dates when it gets here. Alternatively I could go back in time and tell you yesterday... umm... view post


Re: Harbinger posted 10 Apr 2009, 22:04 in The Judging EyeHarbinger by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Athjeari":2ze51oyu]Celmomas never says that an Anasurimbor will save the world, he says that an Anasurimbor will return at the end of the world. (in fact we have no reason to believe that the world can even be saved!) [/quote:2ze51oyu] Agreed, but Celmomas did seem rather happy about it, and considering he organised Ishual which as it turns out is a haven where his scions could hang out getting trained by super Miagis for 2000 years as a place to return from and he had these handy powers of precognition... I've always thought the very idea of a second apocolypse is kinda funny anyway. "Now with 20% more world ending and improved ultimate destruction!" view post


Re: This board blows. posted 14 Apr 2009, 22:04 in The Judging EyeThis board blows. by Curethan, Didact

[quote="nonman_erratic":3j2zndcg]i think this board would be better if Scott posted on it again... The fact that he is posting about his own books on a different author's forum doesn't totally make sense to me...[/quote:3j2zndcg] Advertising, I guess. view post


Re: Twice Read Tales posted 15 Apr 2009, 06:04 in The Judging EyeTwice Read Tales by Curethan, Didact

Here here. Well said. Perhaps those things that make these books so special, so ttranscendant are the same things that limit it's appeal. Demanding of the reader, yet so rewarding to those who think deep upon what they have read. Don't forget the worthy promotion of the importance of critical thought. And I can't believe that Scott's prose continues to wax more lyrical and apropos to the story as it continues. view post


Re: Harbinger posted 15 Apr 2009, 09:04 in The Judging EyeHarbinger by Curethan, Didact

Well, y'know from the bit of Seswatha's memory of Celmomas' passing, I got the impression that he genuinely had a prophetic vision. view post


Re: *Spoilers* Traveller's identity posted 21 Jul 2009, 06:07 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Traveller's identity by Curethan, Didact

Oh that makes sense. Thanks borock! view post


Re: Does Khellus dream as the mandate dream? posted 24 Jul 2009, 13:07 in The Judging EyeDoes Khellus dream as the mandate dream? by Curethan, Didact

He did have a chat with Seswatha through Akka in order to get the gnosis though.. apparently... it happened off stage so mebe it was some kind of dunyain mind trick to break Akka's no speak conditioning. view post


Re: Incariol, what does it mean? posted 02 Aug 2009, 04:08 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Curethan, Didact

Akka would have recognized him if he were Mekeretig - he knows most of the nonmen active during the first apocolypse from Seswatha's dreams. There is a passage where he wonder's at Incariol's indentity saying that he should know one of his abilities. Also recall that the nonman from the prologue (probably Mekertig) wore a cloak made of the faces of worthy foes to help him remember them - I would think this would be a habit that endures. view post


Re: About the Dunyain... posted 02 Aug 2009, 04:08 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAbout the Dunyain... by Curethan, Didact

I agree - they carefully removed all traces when they moved in. I think that knowledge of sorcery is merely "reserved" until one has mastered the logos and moved into the upper echelons of the dunyain. view post


Re: About the Dunyain... posted 05 Aug 2009, 07:08 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAbout the Dunyain... by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Nerdanel":2oridayu]I think even the highest ranks of the Dûnyain are truly ignorant of sorcery. Otherwise Kellhus would have been able to sense the Mark on them and would have later made the connection. Of course it's possible he did and it just wasn't told to the reader, but I doubt it. [/quote:2oridayu] That's assuming they (a) are practitioners and (b) visible at all to the lower echelons. As for your theory... awesome! I like theories too ;) view post


Re: Would you... posted 11 Aug 2009, 07:08 in The Judging EyeWould you... by Curethan, Didact

No. I would use it. I don't need to practice on account of I'm a wizard IRL! view post


Re: The Judging Eye cover art / edition posted 11 Aug 2009, 22:08 in The Judging EyeThe Judging Eye cover art / edition by Curethan, Didact

Got the later edition here - TP (in australia) Never seen the one ur after view post


Re: Is Kellus insane or not posted 26 Aug 2009, 08:08 in The Judging EyeIs Kellus insane or not by Curethan, Didact

[quote="Mochi":ziw6cn2e][quote="Landrew":ziw6cn2e]If concurrently he believes that he is both divine and divinely appointed to save the world, when he is not (making an assumption here), then he is probably insane at least to a degree[/quote:ziw6cn2e] That's my take on it, also. It has been a while since I read TTT, but I recall getting the impression that Kellus came to belive in his own divinity, which previously he had seen as false. That belief is what I think of as his madness. We can gather from Mimara seeing sorcery as damned that Kellhus is a false prophet on some level, so his deviation from knowing truth, which I would think he ought to pride as part of the Logos, is a sort of madness. [/quote:ziw6cn2e] Yeh, he could see his hand halos. Which only believers see. [quote="mochi":ziw6cn2e] [quote="Cripdamind":ziw6cn2e]the 'what has come before' section of each book seems to be the thing we can use to gauge the 'authenticity' of each narrations beliefs. [/quote:ziw6cn2e] While it does present itself that way, I take it to be of a part with the other errata, such as the map, glossary, and Achamian's chart from the first book: glimpses of Eärwa that give insight, but don't neccessarily represent "truth". For example, the glossary in TJE defines Moënghus as the son of [i:ziw6cn2e]Kellhus[/i:ziw6cn2e] and Serwë, when we know that he is truly the son of Cnaiür and Serwë; the glossary cannot be trusted as fact, so I won't presume to take the "What has come before" section as fact, rather as a reminder of what [i:ziw6cn2e]seems[/i:ziw6cn2e] to have happened.[/quote:ziw6cn2e] Well, Moenghus is certainly more Kellhus' son than Cnaiur's in a world where reality is anchored via perception. The truth is only a lie made real in Earwa. :wink: Alternatively, perhaps we can take the unspoken "adopted" as understood - the true sitution is heavily implied during TJE and, for some reason, the "what has come before" bit is appended to the main narrative - so new readers may enjoy guessing at his heritage if they read this series first. If one can't trust even the prequel sysnopsis from the author we are not likely to ever make confident predictions, espescially if the author is being deliberatly ambiguous. Hmmmmmmmm.... I agree with you! view post


Re: Incariol, what does it mean? posted 28 Aug 2009, 07:08 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Curethan, Didact

Mekertrig is definitely the nonman Kellhus meets; Scott let that one slip here. [quote="Cu'jara Cinmoi":2eqitpk3] I can recap and clarify the info that's been given so far: the Nonmen are an ancient race, the 'original people' of Earwa, who are nearly immortal, and who fought both for and against the No-God during the Apocalypse. They are slowly going insane: their minds can only hold roughly four or five human lifetimes of experiences, and as the centuries pass the traumatic experiences they suffer crowd out their other memories, until now, almost all Nonmen remember only the pain and loss in their lives. And some, like the Nonman (Mekertrig) that Kellhus meets in the Prologue, have taken to creating traumatic experiences just so they can have something to remember...[/quote:2eqitpk3] I am of the opinion that nonmen look alike in a similar way that all chinese "look alike" but moreso. Meaning that men would focus on their physical divergences that are consistent between individuals rather than on the differences between said individuals, thus making them all appear alike. A man who had learned from and befriended many different non-men (i.e. Seswatha) would be expected to be able to reliably differentiate between them. If nonmen were effectively clones of each other I feel that Scott would have rendered their society and culture much differently. There was another little nugget of nonman info in the thread with the above quote in that I just had to repost it here even though it is off-topic. [quote="Cu'jara Cinmoi":2eqitpk3] Many Nonmen wander Earwa and the Three Seas, searching for trauma - which is to say, memories. A few hundred serve Golgotterath. The majority of these are what are called 'Erratics' - Nonmen who've been driven mad by the accumulation of trauma. The majority of surviving Nonmen, however, dwell in Ishterebinth - stonghold of the ancient Nonmen nation of Injor Niyas - where they struggle to keep the dwindling flame of their ancient civilization alive. Here the Quya and the Siqu masters continue their studies, developing techniques, sorcerous and otherwise, to keep their race sane. [/quote:2eqitpk3] I jusrt love the nonmen - so cool. view post


Re: I am a devout follower of Kellhus posted 11 Sep 2009, 08:09 in The Judging EyeI am a devout follower of Kellhus by Curethan, Didact

His body servants have noted that his latrine smells of sweet roses. If only he was good with children. view post


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