the archives

dusted off in read-only

  •  

posts by Shell Peralogue | joined 16 Sep 2007 | 66


posted 16 Sep 2007, 02:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

I just finished TTT about 3 hours ago. 8 pages is of messages is overwhelming for a newbie, but... I must be the densest person on the planet. I spent three books wondering what the hell "proof" Serwe was, and then the passionate kiss with Moe... The light bulb goes on... view post


posted 16 Sep 2007, 02:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAkka by Shell, Peralogue

Brienne of Tarth, I just finished TTT about 3 hours ago, and I absolutely agree with you. I loath Esmi by the end because she can't just say "Akka, its over." Its like she tortures him with looks and nonlooks and nonverbal language. view post


posted 16 Sep 2007, 04:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

I just finished TTT about three hours ago, and have been roaming this site... I agree with Carral and Harrol. Never once did I see Cnaiur as insane, and was, in fact, suprised to see it even mentioned! Victim of child sexual abuse? Probably (and confirmed at the end, depending on your POV). Angry? Definetely. Guilty over obviously liking "stronger arms"? Yes. Conflicted that his thoughts strayed from the traditions of the People? Certainly. Hurt and betrayed? Yep. A survivor? For sure. But insane or mad? No. view post


posted 16 Sep 2007, 14:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

Thanks Harrol! Whew, thought I was the only one... If I am going over old ground, forgive me, I just finished the trilogy yesterday, and couldn't sleep last night. I think what threw me is that Cnauir seemed utterly surprised that his tribe thought he was a "faggot weeper". Maybe in hindsight, he was surprised that the tribe even suspected, as I am sure he thought his liason completely private and hidden. That said, I don't think he is gay, or rather he would not define himself as gay. We are placing that label on him. He clealy likes/lusts for women as shown in his descriptions of Anissi and Serwe. You don't hear him noticing Conphas' "muscular thighs" for example. Let me expalin further. I am a student at the University of Minnesota and am taking an HIV/AIDS class, and rather than talk about gay men, the instructor kept speaking of "men who have sex with men" or MSM as being high-risk for HIV, blah, blah. I couldn't get my head around this. If you are a man, and having sex with a man, you are either gay, or bisexual. So I asked. Here is my instructor's example. Say you have a male prostitute and he is has majority male clientele, we say "He is gay" - yet you ask said prostitute, and he will say " I love women. I date them when I am not working. I turn tricks with men to put food on the table and pay the rent. I am not gay." This person is MSM, but not gay. Gay is pretty much a self-defined term. So...Cnauir would not define himself as gay. We define him as gay. I compare Moe and Cnauir parallelling sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests. That, and as Scylenvendi culture was short on expressions of love and acceptance, why wouldn't he turn to Moe as a caring, accepting father figure (however false). view post


posted 16 Sep 2007, 23:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

To Magewind, Ah-nold is too bulky, too slow. I see Cnaiur as leaner and therefore quicker, but still a large man. view post


posted 16 Sep 2007, 23:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

Moe sexualized the relationship, not Cnaiur. Think of all the child molesters out there - priest, boy scout leader, teacher, neighbor. Its always an authority figure and they usually insinuate themselves by becoming the father figure, the trusted confidante, and then it leads to a sexual relationship. The child believes that this person is doing this because the adult "loves" him. BTW, after spending EIGHT hours last night on this forum, I realize I am really late to the party - I some cases years late! lol I have the hardcovers and TTT is copyright 2006, so I figured it was a pretty recent series. I had no idea the paperbacks were out up to five years ago. Ah, for the days when publishers put the hardcovers out first so one knew one's place in the world... view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 00:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

Thanks for that - that is good to know. I have bone to pick with whole Esmi-Akka-Kellhus thing, and Kellhus' "morality" - just not sure how to say it yet... view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 00:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

It just occured to me that Cnaiur is a lot like Karsa Orlong in the Malazan series. view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 01:09 in Literature DiscussionOk so I feel like ive read every good author in existence. by Shell, Peralogue

Hello all, I would strongly suggest Scott Lynch's "The Lies of Locke Lamora" and "Red Seas Under Red Skies" - this is supposed to be a 7 book series. Also Patrick Rothfuss' "The Name of the Wind" which just won the Quill Award for fantasy/SF/Horror catogory - this is the first book of a trilogy. Both are from my home state of Wisconsin, thank you very much! view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 02:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

The entire army of the Tusk murdered and raped - one man's soldier is another's...raper and murderer. Cnaiur would not think of himself as a wife-beater either, that is his culture, and when you are inside your culture, you don't see the wierdness of it as an outsider would. I think the old Japanese custom of ritual suicide is wierd, they think the American idea of "rugged individualism" wierd. Please don't think I am anxiously responding to posts as they come in. I am a grad student and am sitting here writing a paper, and desparate for any distraction that presents itself! view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 03:09 in Literature DiscussionOk so I feel like ive read every good author in existence. by Shell, Peralogue

Hey, My boy Brett just passed John Elway today as the winning-est quarterback ever! :D Harrol, you must be jealous as your favorite team probably has never even won a Superbowl... To complete my thread above, I forgot to add Alan Campbell's "Scar Night" and Glen Cook's "Instrumentalities of the Night" series. Both of these have really strong religious themes as the PON series. All have been written post 9/11... view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 03:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

Desparate, however, people will do all of the above... I am not denying that he could use some time on the couch with his therapist every week. Its because he is "so out there" that I don't think he is crazy. Insane people are always described as "He was such a shy, quiet, nice boy. I never imagined he was chopping up people in his basement...." ala Jeffrey Dahmer. The thing about insane people is that they seem so normal, until we dig up their backyard... I always imagined Cnauir as, well, not ugly. He was described has having "sensual lips" somewhere. view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 03:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

We can apply labels where ever we like but the only thing that does is draws a box around our own perceptions. I like that, we are really defining ourselves when we label something. view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 04:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtAkka by Shell, Peralogue

Frankly, I can't even come up with a good reason as to why it bothers me. Maybe because neither Esmi or Kellhus really said "I'm sorry" Does Kellhus ever say he is sorry to anyone? I can't recall and instance, but neither really tried to make Akka feel better. I would have thought Akka was dead too, and Esmi did wait for him to come back for several days. Maybe I think Esmi didn't grieve long enough, maybe had she waited 6 or 9 months to jump in the sack I would feel differently. When Akka asks "Why, why Esmenet", Kellhus just shrugged and said, "I took what was given" or something along those lines. Akka felt everyone looked upon him as a cuckculded (SP?) husband, and Kellhus never said "Hey, guys leave him alone" or "Akka, we really thought you were dead, and found comfort in each other". But Esmi is not being manipulated to the point where she doesn't love Akka. The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. And she clearly is not that towards Akka. I really don't have a good answer as to why this bothers me so much. view post


posted 17 Sep 2007, 12:09 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

I never thought he appreciated the "strangeness" of his people's attitude towards women, however. He couldn't figure out to love Serwe without beating her. Hmmm, but he did love Anissi - and still beat her. I don't think the Scylevendi culture was any stranger or eccentric than any of the others, like the ones who had heads or something in their braids. view post


posted 18 Sep 2007, 01:09 in Off-Topic DiscussionJames Rigney aka Robert Jordan RIP by Shell, Peralogue

This is sad. I am three books behind in the WoT series as is... Does anyone know if the series will be finished ala Christopher Tolkien? How old was RJ and what was the "horrid disease"? I hope this will encourage GRRM to write faster as he is not so young either anymore... view post


posted 22 Sep 2007, 03:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

Well, according to the Catholic Church you don't have to be insane to be possessed... :shock: (Did I miss something? I really tried to read slow, but just had to find out "what happens" so read faster than I should have. Where was Cnaiur possessed?) Curethan, I think I see where we are disagreeing. I think you are saying insane = psychopath=complete break with reality, and I am using "crazy" as more of a generic term, in the sense of having a grasp of reality. Conphas - psychopath, or at least bipolar or something Serwe - completely delusional You could give these two Prozac by IV and they both would still completely living on another planet. Murder and rape does not mean one is insane by itself, or every crimanal in this country would get off on an insanity plea. Besides, *eveyone" rapes and murders in this story. Being female, the only person I'd feel safe with is Proyas (maybe), and Akka (he's still mooning over Esmi and wouldn't notice me). Kellhus would just talk me out of my clothes and make me think it was my own idea... As far as killing your alliies, Cnaiur was a tool and he knew it. He wasn't hanging with these people because they were his buddies. In fact, I felt nobody even acknowledged that he was human as nobody even addressed him by name, it was always "the Scylevendi". And the war was his tool to get him to Moe. It was mentioned that when the Scylevendi weren't fighting Nansur, they were fighting each other, so the concept of ally was slippery at best. I think people can do crazy things under extreme situations. How many people have heard of mothers being "crazy with grief" and throwing themselves on a child's coffin? Is she really insane (break with reality)? No, but three years later and she is still doing the same thing? Probably insane. Another real-life example. During the early part of WW II, the Nazi's cut off food to Holland during the winter of '41 or '42 - the Dutch Hunger Winter, and some really fascinating epidemiological studies have come from it. Like any story of famine, these people were eating grass, leaves, boiling shoe leather with rat meat for a touch of flavor...and eating the dead guy who froze to death the night before. When interviewing these people years later, they would say they were completly sane, but having to do crazy things to survive. My point being that people who are under duress, may do crazy things or appear crazy, but are in touch with reality. As far as the skin spies, once again I saw Cnaiur as using them as tools to get what he wanted, Now,(and I hope I don't get banned or whatever for this!) didn't it seem that Scott *almost* wrote these skin-spies sympathetically? At least they weren't as odious as Sarcellus, seemed to give him a modicrum of respect and even sort of had conversations? So, OK, I will go with Cnaiur doing some really strange and "crazy" things, but painfully in touch with reality. You think he is a good person? Hmmm, that is really interesting, I will have to think on that one. I absolutely agree that he was trapped between his people and the Dunyain. Maybe they are the crazy ones... :D Anyway, love the discussion! You eally make me think about things and defend my position. Thank you! view post


posted 23 Sep 2007, 16:09 in Literature DiscussionNothing against female Fantasy authors but... by Shell, Peralogue

No one mentioned Madeleine L'Engle. More geared towards a younger audience but I reread the Wrinkle in Time books a few years ago and found them still enjoyable. Melanie Rawn has some good stuff...and some really bad stuff. view post


posted 24 Sep 2007, 00:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]"Murderous Children" by Shell, Peralogue

The "murderous children" caught my eye too, along with the fact that Kellhus and Esmi are still together after 20 years (I really hope Akka shows up slimmer, full head of hair with his trophy wife on arm, take that Esmi!) First of all, Scott could've wrote "murderous child" and we would be pretty sure that was infant Moe. Obviously children implies more than one with homicidal tendencies - which I find strange as neither Kellhus or Esmi are particularily violent. Perhaps some genetic defect on Kellhus part since we are assuming he is rather inbred? Maybe its a twist and it is neither of these children... Second, "murderous" implies a certain mindset. We know then that they are not scientists, musicians, merchants, statesmen or lawyers. view post


posted 24 Sep 2007, 00:09 in Author Q & AQuestion about the ending of TWP *Spoiler Warning* by Shell, Peralogue

OK, I know this subject has been posted on ad infinitum, but... I don't have a quibble with whose (I'm with the Serwe camp), or why (manifestation of his *miracle* resurrection, ala the pictures of "The Sacred Heart of Jesus that my Catholic relatives had), my question is HOW? Disclaimer: I am an RN and am looking at this with a biased, medical eye! Kellhus was bound "ankle to ankle, and wrist to wrist" with Serwe, correct? And I had the impression they were hanging upside-down (Serwe's black face would be from the blood pooling) and that they were there about three days, right? So Kellhus is weakened. So he is cut down, jumps to his feet, and...there is the heart! Open-heart surgery requires a saw to cut the sternum open and then the ribs are cracked open...requires a bit of strength. Somewhere, someone quoted that Serwe's body had been mutilated by the crowd and that possibly her stomach had been cut open, but you would still have to reach in and dig around...did I miss the digging around? This is the reason I can't watch slasher/horror flicks, I am always saying things like "Oh, COME ON, you aren't even near a major artery!" or "Jeez, blood doesn't spurt THAT much!" The comment made by many who have watched with me are "Suspend your disbelief!" I will do that if consensus tells me I am being too picky on this heart issue. view post


posted 24 Sep 2007, 13:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

Curethan, I find it funny that you think he is a good guy, but completely insane, and I think he is completely sane, but not very nice...either way, neither one of us would want to be in the immediate vicinity of Cnauir! :D Well, I will have to re-read the books again because I have no recollection of some of what you describe regarding his behavior. As someone said in this forum "I have no belly to re-read the books at this time". In fact, I had to put fantasy aside (hasn't happened in a decade at least) and am reading "And The Band Played On: Politics, People and the AIDS Epidemic". Nothing like depressing reality to get over depressing "reality" in an entirely fictional world. Did Scott ever weigh in on this issue? Speaking of Conphas, I wondered why he never denounced Cnauir after the rape... view post


posted 28 Sep 2007, 20:09 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

I didn't get the feeling that Conphas buggery was a problem with his men. It seems they were more upset that they having to ally with lifelong enemies, the Fanim, against those of their own religion. Conphas himself was quite happy to keep Cnaiur alive after capturing him. I also never got the feeling that homosexuality had such a prohibition against it among the Nansur as it did with the Scylvendi. After all, incest doesn't seem to be a problem in Conphas' own family. view post


posted 01 Oct 2007, 23:10 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

Curethan, I keep forgetting to ask you why you think Cnaiur is hairy? It seems like he is the only one who doesn't seem to have a big, nasty, ol' beard. view post


posted 28 Oct 2007, 22:10 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]"Murderous Children" by Shell, Peralogue

Kessriga, Good point. Here we are all assuming that the "murderous children" are those out in the world, not those who may exist and were left behind. view post


posted 01 Nov 2007, 00:11 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeMoenghus = Mallahet? by Shell, Peralogue

Harrol, I see that you still have that cynical streak... :wink: I bet you would feel better if you were a Packer fan. view post


posted 02 Nov 2007, 00:11 in The Darkness That Comes BeforeMoenghus = Mallahet? by Shell, Peralogue

Ah Harrol, you always cheer me up so... :lol: view post


posted 01 Dec 2007, 01:12 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThere are 'no gods' by Shell, Peralogue

Angainawen, I wish I had gone to your high school... :) Shell view post


posted 06 Dec 2007, 02:12 in Literature DiscussionR Jordan passed away by Shell, Peralogue

The first few are pretty good, then the middle ones are like 800 pages and a week passes by, and I haven't read the last two (they are on my list but I will have to start at the beginning again and there are so many good books out there and...) You get the picture. view post


posted 07 Dec 2007, 00:12 in The Thousandfold ThoughtJust finished Thousandfold Thought by Shell, Peralogue

Harrol's favorite little rascal is Brett Favre...he is a huge Packer fan... view post


posted 07 Dec 2007, 16:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by Shell, Peralogue

I personally like #8... As I was putting off doing any schoolwork, and cruising some boards on other favorite authors, I came across a thread that says that AE will be delayed and is not being released Spring '08. True? view post


posted 10 Dec 2007, 23:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by Shell, Peralogue

Harrol, Would those studies be in, perhaps, The Onion, or maybe the National Enquirer? On Jerry Springer? You have a long wait, my friend, on the crash and burn... :P view post


posted 11 Dec 2007, 00:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by Shell, Peralogue

Harrol, If the Packers win the Superbowl, I will happily help you pack... (Strains "O Canada" wafting in the background) view post


posted 12 Dec 2007, 00:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by Shell, Peralogue

Harrol, Do I wear the Cowboy jersey if they go to the Superbowl and lose, or if they have to play against the Cowboys in the playoffs and lose? And who will be supplying said jersey since I have no intention of spending my own hard earned cash to procure one, since my skin will burn and flake off upon contact. view post


posted 12 Dec 2007, 00:12 in The Thousandfold ThoughtJust finished Thousandfold Thought by Shell, Peralogue

Sounds like Karl Rove's propaganda machine :wink: After only one reading, I have no opinion other than I am enjoying the discussion for when I do a re-read. view post


posted 12 Dec 2007, 04:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by Shell, Peralogue

They can't lose to the Cowboys in the Superbowl, they are in the same division. Harrol, you better take some of your lazy-earned plastic and buy your own Cowboys jersey... or cheerleader pom-poms and white Daisy Dukes.(short shorts for all you dudes out there) Good idea on the picture, but I live in Viking-land. You think they're gonna have Cowboy stuff here? view post


posted 12 Dec 2007, 14:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by Shell, Peralogue

(the next morning, yawns sleepily) I think the image of Harrol with pompoms and white shorts just before turning in last night caused nightmares... Trees uprooting themselves and flinging themselves in my path while I try to escape on my bicycle across a golf course. Yikes, a combo of LOTR, ET and Caddyshack. view post


posted 12 Dec 2007, 22:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by Shell, Peralogue

Harrol, You are forgiven. Truthfully, unless they play in GB, the Pack will probably lose :cry: view post


posted 13 Dec 2007, 13:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Top 10 list of things to do while waiting on Great Ordeal. by Shell, Peralogue

Maybe we are just bored becasue the PON action has been a little slow around here lately... view post


posted 14 Dec 2007, 14:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

A very good post on Cnaiur, and I agree with most of it. The part of don't agree with (and there is *huge* discussion over on "Is Cnaiur gay) is that I don't think he is homosexual just because he had one male lover, and that one at 15. I don't think Cnaiur thinks he is homosexual either because he was utterly surprised, if I remember correctly, when he was called a "weeping faggot". Deep down, most of my gay friends knew they were homosexual, and maybe just denied it to spare family or whatever. But they would not be surprised to be called faggot. I think in a culture as the Scylenvendi, where love and other tender feelings are ignored, any person of either gender who showed an interest or caring when you were 15 would probably end up as your lover. It is unforutunate that Moengus had ulterior motives. Another point to bring up is how come we are so facinated by Cnaiur and his male lover? Why don't we bring up whether Moehgus is gay or not? Or whether Emsi and Serwe are lesbians? I still can't decide if Kellus is a liar, either, or just tells you what you want to hear. view post


posted 14 Dec 2007, 19:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

The whole scene with Conphas was rape, and rape is not about sex, its about power, so I don't think it qualifies as a "relationship", or even homesexual. I suspect his feelings for Moehgus initially came from the validation and interest Moengus (however fake) showed him as a child. Think of a Catholic priest and all these sex abuse scandals. The priest cultivates trust and an interest in the child, many times in the context of distant or unavailable fathers, then later the relationship turns sexual. Using the same analogy, with Cnaiur being the eqivalent of an alter boy (wow, he is so *not* an alter boy :lol: ), I know a few childhood-priest abuse victims personally. While they struggle with depression, anger, drug use/alcoholism, and suicide attempts, not one of them considers themselves gay or even bi-sexual - even if it was several incidents of molestation, even if they admit is was (shamefully) pleasurable. If that is the relationship that Cnaiur "cares" about the most, and I would substitute the phrase "affects the most", I think its in the context of betrayal and hate, not love and caring. You certainly can't describe his feelings for Moenhgus as warm and fuzzy, contrary to most people's memories of a first love. view post


posted 14 Dec 2007, 22:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

I also was quite proud Cnaiur killled Moenghus. Depending on AE and if Cnaiur returns, we probably will not know what exactly Cnauir felt. I just caution you when you equate "ardour" (sexual pleasure) with love or positive feelings. As I am doing my thesis on Women, Poverty and HIV across the globe, I can tell you that I have come across a lot of stuff where men describe having erections as young boys when the priest was fondling them, or girls reporting that it "felt good" when their fathers performed oral sex on them. The body responds automatically sometimes...and I hope I haven't offended anyone with particular sensitivities, I cleaned the actual language up quite a bit. view post


posted 15 Dec 2007, 19:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

I totally see your point. It doesn't matter if it was hate or love, or both, it was extremely deep and powerful. I agree 15 year-old Cnaiur loved Moenghus, and I think 15-year-old Cnaiur returned the kiss, not 40-year-old Cnaiur. I think the only thing we may disgree on is the motive for killing Moenghus; you think intellect, and I think hate. Either way Moenghus got what he deserved. view post


posted 15 Dec 2007, 19:12 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]Breaker of Horses and Men by Shell, Peralogue

ashaman33, I forgot to ask you what you thought Kellhus was lying to Esmi about. I can't decide if he really loves her, or is just using her as a broodmare. Or does he take her away to get back at Akka, whom I thought he truly liked? And for all his lying, is he good or "bad"? I s'pose we are getting away from this thread... view post


posted 22 Dec 2007, 21:12 in General DiscusssionCnaiur's sexuality-why is the topic so damn popular?? by Shell, Peralogue

Xatantius, I also have been facinated by this topic. Nobody discusses Moengus' sexuality, and he obviously had sex with men/boy (Cnaiur) and women. And I know there were references to Esmi, Serwe and Kellhus all in the same bed, but no "Are Esmi and Serwe lovers?" thread. Maybe its like when you go to your 20th high school class reunion, and you aren't surprised that the skinny guy who played the flute is gay, but you are surprised to hear that the captain of the football team is gay, or the guy who became the navy seal is gay. view post


posted 10 Jan 2008, 16:01 in General DiscusssionCnaiur's sexuality-why is the topic so damn popular?? by Shell, Peralogue

Interesting last post, but I can't agree that he is entirely homosexual - I'll give you bisexual at best. After all, he does have sex with women. He clearly lusts after Serwe, and doesn't seem to express disgust at sexual relations with females. Mind games with a Dunyain? Yikes! But then that begs the age-old debate of whether one is born gay, or made gay. We don't have any indication that Cnaiur was attracted to men before his encounter with Moehgus, so how can he really "come out" in the true sense? view post


posted 11 Jan 2008, 17:01 in General DiscusssionCnaiur's sexuality-why is the topic so damn popular?? by Shell, Peralogue

Maybe he was attracted to Moehgus because there was no violence attached to the relationship initially (actually, if I remember correctly, the violence was directed towards the baby and Cnair's mother) - he was a teenager at the time and that may have left more of an impression then the actual sex. If we say that his violence towards females may indicate repressed homosexuality, then the entire Scylevendi culture would be repressed as wife beating/raping seems to be the norm. Odd behavior seems to be gentleness in his relationship with Anissi (sp?) Yikes, have we attracted the attention of any idealist? I'd be more worried about the fundamentalists. view post


posted 16 Jan 2008, 01:01 in General DiscusssionCnaiur's sexuality-why is the topic so damn popular?? by Shell, Peralogue

Also faulty. It does not clarify anything to dump them into one basket and call it "gay". Ask anyone who is actually gay, or bisexual. or transgender, or whatever. view post


posted 16 Jan 2008, 19:01 in General DiscusssionCnaiur's sexuality-why is the topic so damn popular?? by Shell, Peralogue

Angainawen, Are you truly under 20? Because you have the insight of someone much older! I admit I do get an little annoyed over the whole "gay" thing as I have some very good friends who are gay, and lesbian (and if I know anyone who is trangendered or transexual they are doing a darn good job because I don't know who they are!). Being "40-ish" I had a class reunion recently and some of those who were teased without mercy for being perceived gay (you know, the skinny guy who played clarinet in the HS band) showed up and the same crap happened all over again. *Sigh* So, breather taken... view post


posted 21 Jan 2008, 16:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Shell, Peralogue

I woke up in the middle of the night and came up with: Kellhus vs Karsa Orlong (Steven Erikson). He is big, he is a badass, and is pissed off that the Chained God is trying to manipulate him, so maybe he would be immune to Kellhus. Then I remembered that he doesn't have any sorcery, but maybe being Knight in High House of Chains would confer some sorcerous immunity. Kellhus vs Anomander Rake. Thousands of years old, sorcerous ability, Knight of High House Dark, and has a sword that he knows how to use, and that traps your soul forever. If Kellhus got too close, he could probably use a warren to come out behind him... view post


posted 22 Jan 2008, 23:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Shell, Peralogue

I also don't know what it/they is/are... view post


posted 24 Jan 2008, 03:01 in The Judging EyeThe Judging Eye by Shell, Peralogue

Wow, he doesn't like GWB... :lol: view post


posted 24 Jan 2008, 03:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Shell, Peralogue

Master Yoda would kick butt. view post


posted 26 Jan 2008, 16:01 in The Thousandfold ThoughtQuestion about the Tekne and soulled beings by Shell, Peralogue

Hmmm, wondering if it could accidently happen again, sort of like some rare genetic disorder that pops up every third generation or something. I am reminded of the Terminator movies and the Battlestar Galactica series (no spoilers, I'm only on the second season!) - self aware machines with independent thought, yet have some sort of "program/software", and now can appparently mate and have machine/human hybrids, who will be...soulless? view post


posted 10 Feb 2008, 22:02 in General DiscusssionWhat if Kellhus was one of us? by Shell, Peralogue

Maybe we are just more suspicious. Born and raised Christian (Catholic) I am supposed to believe the Jesus will come back to earth. Now seriously, if it really was Him, would you believe it? Or would you think He was some sort of very talanted David Copperfield with all the miracles? Sure, a certain portion of the population would know for sure it was Him, but I am pretty sure I would just think they were all delusional and nuts. Kellhus could manipulate us. Look at GWB, Karl Rove and D. Cheney who have most the country believing that Iraq was behind 9/11 and that was the reason for the war. Next it was "weapons of mass destruction" and THAT was the reason for the war - or maybe I have them mixed up. Then people are convinced that listening to our phone conversations and checking financial reports without a warrent is a good thing. OK, maybe I am the only suspicious one :shock: Jesus is gonna have a hard time with me, I might just miss the Rapture... view post


posted 11 Feb 2008, 03:02 in General DiscusssionWhat if Kellhus was one of us? by Shell, Peralogue

Well, I was working off the theme as "Kellhus as God" as we don't really have a thread on "Is Kellhus a politician?" I think Kellhus would come as a religious leader. Does anyone really care who the leader of Switzerland is (pop. 7.5 million)? No offence to anyone Swiss - I really liked Switzerland when I was there. A leader who took control of Islam - 1.5 billion A leader who took control of Christianity - 2.0 billion A leader who took control of Hinduism - 900 million A religious leader gets you much, much further... . view post


posted 11 Feb 2008, 14:02 in General DiscusssionWhat if Kellhus was one of us? by Shell, Peralogue

Oh man, Paris Hilton? :shock: Thanks, nice image in my head all day... view post


posted 15 Feb 2008, 17:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Shell, Peralogue

Karsa Orlong - Steven Erikson, Malazan series. I considered Darth Vader, but decided he was too consumed by the Dark Side. Master Yoda, while he has emotions, can control them, so would probably do pretty well. Lord Voldemort? view post


posted 15 Feb 2008, 18:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtWas Cnauir gay? by Shell, Peralogue

Nice post Sea Cucumber. view post


posted 15 Feb 2008, 19:02 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Shell, Peralogue

Of course Yoda. He can use the Force to throw things at him. R2D2 - no martial arts ability. Will those of you who have read the Malazan series come help me out? view post


posted 15 Feb 2008, 20:02 in General DiscusssionWhat if Kellhus was one of us? by Shell, Peralogue

So during my 45 minute commute, my thought process on Monday went from Paris Hilton to Britney Spears...I know, worse and worse. Luckily, I had a three hour class on pandemic infuenza to drive away thoughts of useless blondes taking up too much of the country's neural cells. They both are so NOT getting the flu shot when the big pandemic hits. I vote NO. Anyway, Curethan, I agree we are not any smarter than medieval ages. Da Vinci = Newton = Stephen Hawking = Bill Gates. I just think we are more suspicious, cynical and jaded. Scenario: 1462, somewhere in France. Priest: "Oh no, the moon is eating the sun! All widows bang drums to chase the moon away! All virgins to pray with me naked! All: "OK!" Scenario: 2008, somewhere in France. "Eclipse? No, man, you need to see the lastest video on Cats Getting a Bath on YouTube!" All:... I don't think the Internet and mass media would make Kellhus more manipulative. One of his genius is looking into my eyes and seeing my deepest desire. YouTube would introduce him to billions, but he doesn't have that personal connection. Too many funny Eddie Izzard clips would divert my attention. OK, you say, he doesn't have to convince all of us, just our fearless leaders. I would counter with an example. Harrol and I are obviously on opposite sides on politics. Should GWB go on national TV and say "This here Kellhus guy is a right smart individual. I'm going to pull trees on my ranch. You just do whatever he says." Me and a whole lotta folks are going to get the ALCU involved, make a motion to place a tax all of Kellhus' actions, and try to pass legislation that will allow Kellhus and Cnaiur to marry if they so wish. In other words, We Will NOT Take This Without a Fight! On the other hand, let's say a certain female senator from NY stands up and says "Me and my husband Bill think that Kellhus is the most compassionate and intellegent being to ever walk this earth. You just do whatever he says." Harrol and a whole lotta other folks are going to stand up and say "Fie, Satan! We will never listen to you!" They will go home, gather up all their guns and form militias, make a motion to repeal the entire tax code, and try to pass legislation that Kellhus can only have one wife ever. No concubines allowed. Advertising? Are you really convinced that Tide cleans better than Cheer in hot water in 4 out of 5 trials? Or is that just a time to go find something to eat in the 'fridge? I admit, I am marketing's worst nightmare - push of a button takes me right past all of 'em. Mental illness? (scratches head). In light of this recent university shooting (since I heard the gunman stopped taking his meds a few weeks ago, and was acting "erratic".) you might have something there. Although the people that have a mental illness at any point in time are a small minority. There has been some discussion as to whether Cnaiur was mentally ill, and he certainly didn't roll over and follow Kellhus like a lost puppy dog. view post


posted 17 Feb 2008, 05:02 in General DiscusssionWhat if Kellhus was one of us? by Shell, Peralogue

Well, if Kellhus can take 6.3 billion people and turn us all into mindless pods, then he is truly all-powerful and frankly, not a very interesting character. view post


posted 02 Mar 2008, 23:03 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Shell, Peralogue

Heh, heh, the best way to watch 300 is turn the sound down and enjoy the view...but that is from a female perspective :wink: view post


Re: Kelhus vs ... posted 08 Aug 2008, 20:08 in The Thousandfold ThoughtKelhus vs ... by Shell, Peralogue

I asked the Karsa Orlong question back in Feb. I'd have to go with Karsa. He is a lot like Cnaiur but not so introspecitive as he doesn't give a fig what you think about him. Besides, he is ascended now, isn't he (I haven't read the most recent book yet)? view post


Re: Esmi posted 26 Sep 2008, 15:09 in The Warrior ProphetEsmi by Shell, Peralogue

I have to go with Avariel on this one, guys. I won't repeat my arguments since they are on this board already. "Simpering" and "cow-like" pretty much sum up my feelings about Serwe. Being female myself, I struggle to decide whether Scott simply fell into the trap of portraying Esmi as weakminded and manipulated into worshipping Kellhus in his godliness (and genitalia), or if he is being true to times where it would make absolute sense that a woman with no standing and social position would naturally pick the man that would offer her the most opportunites, regardless of her personal feelings. Avariel summed up something else that had been bothering me - the way Esmi's personality seemed to change so much. If Scott had continued to portray her with a strong intellect and personality, and then I can see her making a calculated decision to go with Kellhus (and letting us in on that decision-making in her head), but dropping her to an intellectual level that almost matches Serwe is something I find insulting on some level. Kind of like a school-boy fantasy that, "All women will find me and my penis irresistable, regardless of the fact that she is captain of the debate team and president of the Physics Club, and I can barely spell". OK, I admit Kellhus can spell. Maybe a better analogy would be Glenda the Good Witch falling for Darth Vader just because he told her sweet nothings and has a large manhood. view post


Re: Esmi posted 27 Sep 2008, 02:09 in The Warrior ProphetEsmi by Shell, Peralogue

Esmi shows us at the beginning that she knows she is more than her sexuality, Akka knows that she is more than her sexuality, so therefore everything with Kellhus is regression. Name me one person who changed as much as Esmi. Serwe stayed annoying dumb, Conphas astonishingly arrogant, Proyas pious, Cnaiur stayed Cnaiur. I think Esmi is a lightning rod because she is the ONLY main female character. Serwe could have been any other beautiful, nameless face in the crowd, and Conphas mother really doesn't count. She is a lightning rod because Bakker started out with an intelligent woman who knew her own soul, and now everyone defers to her ONLY because she is Kellhus' bedpartner and mother of a godling or something. If she was not attached to Kellhus, she would be just another of many camp whores. view post


Re: Consensus so far? posted 05 Feb 2009, 14:02 in The Judging EyeConsensus so far? by Shell, Peralogue

Hi all, I have been away for some months and probably won't read the new book for a few months (too busy), AND my sister has the old books so I can't re-read them. Amazon sent me the following review (which is why I decided to poke around in here again). Some of you are new and some may not remember me, but I am probably one of the few females in this forum and had a huge problem with the protrayal of Serwe (simply a breeding cow) and Esme to some extent (felt she gave up who she was to go with Kellhus). It did bother me a little that the women in the story were few in number (3, and that is counting the skin-spy Empress) and existed, for the most part, to either serve the sexual needs of men or to become the propagators of the next generation of protagonists. So it was with disappointment that I read this review from Publishers Weekly via Amazon: "Twenty years after the events of 2007's The Thousandfold Thought, nations unite in a holy war to prevent the No-God's apocalyptic resurrection. Aspect-Emperor Kellhus seems a benevolent messiah, but may be only a power-hungry demagogue. Exiled wizard Drusas Achamian's quest to expose Kellhus as a fraud could be a bitter cuckold's folly or the world's best hope. The Empress Esmenet juggles belief in her husband's godhead with grief for his lack of human attachment. Her bitter, abandoned daughter Mimara—an ex-prostitute, like her mother—begs Achamian to teach her sorcery, though the Judging Eye curse sends her visions of damnation. Bakker's lush language sometimes achieves poetry, but his plotting is less original; minor and nonsexualized female characters are conspicuously absent; and new readers will struggle with the intricate politics and history. " Hah, maybe Esme got what she deserved. view post


  •  

The Three Seas Forum archives are hosted and maintained courtesy of Jack Brown.